New York City Making History-- Lower Voting Age to be Proposed on June 8

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
You're right, for some reason the 16-18 group was completely absent in the last Presidential election

Given the disappointing numbers from the 18-24 camp, he's going to have to try a bit harder to justify the comment that youth will come out to vote when the slightly older ones can hardly be bothered to vote now. Sorry Mr Crusher, you on a self-pwning crusade without something more substantive.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Given the disappointing numbers from the 18-24 camp, he's going to have to try a bit harder to justify the comment that youth will come out to vote when the slightly older ones can hardly be bothered to vote now. Sorry Mr Crusher, you on a self-pwning crusade without something more substantive.

Did you even read the thing I posted above? It goes and substantiates it with hard numbers:

4. Youth Want the Right to Vote and Will Turnout

$ 73% of 12-17 year olds in a Washington Post survey were very interested or fairly interested in politics. 95% of these young people viewed voting in a presidential election as very important or fairly important.

$ Teens support a lower voting age: 73% of 12-17 year-olds in 1991 Minneapolis mock election supported a voting age of 16.

$ Teens will turnout and vote:

$ Germany- Several states lowered the voting age to 16 for local elections, with higher turnout for voters under eighteen than eighteen-twenty-five.

„X City of Hanover (1996) 16-17 year-olds (56.5% turnout), 18-24 year-olds (49.1% turnout).
„X City of Braunscheig (1996), 16-17 year-olds (50.4% turnout), 18-24 year-olds (44.5% turnout).
„X In Saxony-Anhelt (1999) (all major cities), 16-17 year-olds (33% turnout), 18-21 year-olds (32% turnout), 21-25 year-olds (24% turnout).

$ Austria- City of Graz, January 2003- 16-17 year-olds turned out at a higher rate (58%) than all voters (57%).

$ USA- For the most part, turnout among American youth must be examined by comparing mock election turnout number with adult turnout.

„X Minneapolis School Board Election (1991)- 12-17 year olds (40% turnout ), Adults (5.6% turnout);
„X Washington D.C. (1991) (Kids Voting Mock Election)- students (50%+), Adults (40%);
„X Baltimore, 2003- an actual election where some 16 and 17 year-olds were able to vote in the mayoral primary because they would be 18 by the time of the general election (more than one year later). Turnout: 35% of registered 16 and 17 year-olds turned out versus 36% of the general population.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


Did you even read the thing I posted above? It goes and substantiates it with hard numbers:

Yes, I read it. I saw nothing in it other than examples that were cherry picked (I actually laughed out loud at the mock elections BS) to bolster the case you present but do nothing to counter the the general trend evidenced by 18-20 year olds.

[Spiffor]

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Yes, I read it. I saw nothing in it other than examples that were cherry picked (I actually laughed out loud at the mock elections BS) to bolster the case you present but do nothing to counter the the general trend evidenced by 18-20 year olds.

Ah yes, cherry picked examples, I deviously left out all the dozens and dozens of other examples of 16 & 17 year olds voting in the United States and Europe. I'm such a clever bastard.

Oh wait, in most all places you can't vote at 16, that's right. So much for that exhaustive list of data out there on this subject I cherry picked from.

[MrFun]

there goes the neighborhood . . . . . . .

[asleepathewheel]

Congrats on the success Ozzy

[Flip McWho]

Yes, I read it. I saw nothing in it other than examples that were cherry picked (I actually laughed out loud at the mock elections BS) to bolster the case you present but do nothing to counter the the general trend evidenced by 18-20 year olds.

Thats a bit cheap. You say hes cherrying picking and then ask him to counter the general trend in your one cherry picked negative answer. At least Ozzy is laying out an argument from other areas which have done pretty much exactly what NY is wanting to do. Hell by the time you hit 19-24 you're in a totally different phase of your life than an 16-18 yr old.

[OzzyKP]

Exactly Flip.

A voting age of 16 encourage a life-long voting
habit: most 16 year-olds live with their families and
have a vested interest in their local communities.
Most 18 year-olds have moved to brand new communities
and are overwhelmed by the pressures of full-time
employment or college. Thus, they lack the time to
thoroughly examine issues and candidates.

[mrmitchell]

For example, polls have shown that about 70% of adults can’t name their own state’s senators. Another poll found that three-quarters of Americans could not name their House member. A third showed almost two-thirds of adults could not name any United States Supreme Court justices.

Blanche Lincoln, D-AR
Mark Pryor, D-AR

4th district: Mike Ross, D-AR

Ruth Bader Ginsburg
Antonin Scalia
Sandra Day O'Connor
Clarence Thomas
Old Man Rehnquist

historically?
John Marshall
Roger Taney
Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr
William Taft

[DarkCloud]

err.. having lived through the ages of 16 and 17 and several others before and after- I'd have to say that age 16 is questionable for voting - almost no one in my school knew anything political. I'd say about 10% of them were well-educated on the issues enough to even discuss them.

I would support an age 17 one, because more 17 years olds work, etc. But frankly, I don't think the groups are mature enough and would be influcned by the parents. The age 18 is a breakout age, a time when people separate from foreign influences. That is a good reason for the voting age to remain around there.

Lower it to 17... not 16... (even though horror of all horrors- children DRIVE at age 16!) [most aren't mature enough for doing that either.]

[Kuciwalker]

I don't think the groups are mature enough and would be influcned by the parents.

influenced by the parents maybe to vote in the opposite direction

[Donegeal]

[Homer Simpson]

I believe that children are our future, unless we do something about it!!!

[/Homer Simpson]

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by mrmitchell

Blanche Lincoln, D-AR
Mark Pryor, D-AR

4th district: Mike Ross, D-AR

Ruth Bader Ginsburg
Antonin Scalia
Sandra Day O'Connor
Clarence Thomas
Old Man Rehnquist

historically?
John Marshall
Roger Taney
Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr
William Taft

Governor: Marc Erlich
Senators: Mukulski (D)
Sarbanes (D)
Rep: Damn, i know him, but i am totally blanking on his name

Justices:
ginsburg
scalia
o'connor
kennedy
breyer
rehnquist
thomas
stevenson
crap, missing one.... grrr.

[asleepathewheel]

Sens Bayh and Luger

I have no idea who my rep is.

Is a valid excuse that I've only lived here for 9 months (yes, I know that includes an election cycle)

Rehnquist
Scalia
Thomas
O'Connor
Kennedy
Breyer
Souter
Ginsburg
Stevens