How can EU defend its social state?

[Bereta_Eder]

Free markets can be the ultimate slavery. That is not news.

We have the present situation aftr the collapse of the Soviet EMpire (much like the Roman one). We are entering a new middle ages (this time Greece/eastern roman empire too). Free markets. Worldwide. Globalization. The cheapest product.

So Miss Mercedes not happy with how much the german workers want for their job? No problem, go to China.

Yes China the land of opportunity. Republica had a nice expose. Working hours: 7,30 morning to 11 night. One sunday off every 15 days. And age of workers 10-18 years old. And you can't hold strikes there. They put you in jail.

So old europe what are you gonna do? (US killed off with the mob all its syndicates and workers consciousness, it's out of the picture)
You can't compete. Will you settle for 40% unemployement or will you send your children from 10 years old to work from 7,30 to 11 at night to compete?

Liberalism the death of civilization.

[Starchild]

The Chinese build and the Indians program and Starchild the biochemist enjoys the ride all the way to the Singularity.

[DanS]

Indeed, how will old Europe compete.

[Bereta_Eder]

The question is not how to "compete". That is a false dilema. "Competing" is the Trojan Horse for liberalist slavery. We can compete and become like the US or China. That is anathema and as easy as going to hell. The question is how to defend what Europe has. And that is by spreading the world over its social model. Or alternatively impose fines on companies that take advantage of the lack of social provisions in other countries. But who's going to do that.

[C0ckney]

well 'old europe' is going to have to adapt and reform the socialist policies which aren't working. it's interesting to note that the more 'liberal' countries in europe are doing the best.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by C0ckney
well 'old europe' is going to have to adapt and reform the socialist policies which aren't working.

with "flexible workhours" and "competition"? So we can become like the UK with the worse medical system in Europe and a pitiful social policy? Not to mention trains that envy the italian ones and the longest hours of work?

it's interesting to note that the more 'liberal' countries in europe are doing the best.

If you mean east Europe I'll agree. But they're not in the same situation.

[DanS]

Originally posted by paiktis22
So we can become like the UK

Y'all would be lucky to have somebody like Thatcher to drag you into modernity.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by DanS


Y'all would be lucky to have somebody like Thatcher to whip you into shape.

Luckily that was an one time British vice.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by C0ckney
well 'old europe' is going to have to adapt and reform the socialist policies which aren't working. it's interesting to note that the more 'liberal' countries in europe are doing the best.

BTW I wouldn't characterise the scandinavian countries and finland as "liberal" countries. And from the point of view of the social state, they're doing the best...

[C0ckney]

well i mean the eastern countries, but i also mean the UK, which is doing better than continental countries.

paik, what do you think the answer is?

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by C0ckney
well i mean the eastern countries, but i also mean the UK, which is doing better than continental countries.

paik, what do you think the answer is?

I don't know. I'm asking basically OK being a little bit of an ass too

I think that we need to decide if what we had so far is worth protecting. If this is the case, I think there's no other way than to "levelthe play field". For example there can be no production/trade with China if human rights - workers rights are not upheld.
But the political elites didn't care about that when they got it to the WTO.
Or we can go down the american tradition road. Rampant Protectionism and destruction of workers' consciousness. But I don't think that's good neither for us or for third countries.

[Lancer]

In Germany I hear the workers get 2 months off a year, paid. In the US it's two weeks. You can spread that around.

[Lancer]

Of course 2 months off but no jobs...

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Lancer
In Germany I hear the workers get 2 months off a year, paid. In the US it's two weeks. You can spread that around.

Two months is a bit much. Maybe in some rare cases, but generally between 3 and 6 weeks is most common AFAIk.

[C0ckney]

yeah i like the idea of applying economic pressure to china because of its terrible human rights record, but i don't think there's a whole we can do to be honest.

what we should do is ensure that trade within europe is as free as possible, take down the remaining barriers, liberalise services, get rid of the CAP, stuff like that, because that can only benefit all of us in the long run.