Are post-modernism and relativism both threats to liberty and equality?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by MrFun
On the other hand, postmodernists depreciate the concept of equal rights and the idea of individuality.

Not so fast! I'd think most postmodernists, as well as Nietszchists, believe in a hyper-individuality, in that individuals have to break out of seeing societal constructs and act as actual individuals. So you postulation that they are anti individuality, I see as flawed.

[MrFun]

Postmodernism and relativism can be used by both -- those who seek to liberate humanity and those who seek to repress it.

[Imran Siddiqui]

As can any ideology .

[MrFun]

Yes, any ideology -- I agree with you on that one.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So it is a mite unfair to single out postmodernism and relativity for that, isn't it?

[MrFun]

Well since the topic concerns postmodernism and relativism . . . . . .

[Imran Siddiqui]

And you started the topic... no excuse.

[MrFun]

I can bring up serious questions about any ideology -- I happen to choose postmodernism and relativism.


The reason I chose those, is because the way many postmodernists and relativists deconstruct ideas seems to go to too far of an extreme as compared to more reasonable questioning and challening ideas.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The reason I chose those, is because the way many postmodernists and relativists deconstruct ideas seems to go to too far of an extreme as compared to more reasonable questioning and challening ideas.

You mean like the reasonable 'questioning and challenging' of the Anarchists that break Starbucks in their anti-globalization crusades, or the uber-conservatives who are in position to dismantle the social system in their 'questioning and challenging' of the center-left domination of American politics from 1932-1980?

I don't see many postmodernists and relativists doing anything which has threatened the lives or livelihoods of others. The leaders of the world deal in absolutes.

You are bringing up questions about a group which doesn't really have any power. It's like starting a thread to complain about libertarianism as an ideology. It's such a minor blight on the political landscape that it hardly seems discussing.

[MrFun]

You don't think postmodernism and/or relativism could gain wider influence?

[Dracon II]

Postmodernism breaks down the metaphysical basis of liberalism. It simply means that man will have to refer to himself as the basis of all ideas.

Rights, liberties, etc all have their basis in man (non-gendered man). We can't say that God gave man the ability to reason; man's ability to reason gave God to man.... and eventually destroyed God. Postmodernism is simply the culmination of modernity's God negating trajectory.

Saying that the responsibility for, and the source of all rights and liberties lies in humanity is not necessarily tantamount to "depreciating" them. What it does mean is that we have to choose... and the choice is firmly with us and not beyond us.

If we believe in liberty, equality and justice for all... what we need is the power to maintain and extend it. What help is it that we source these ideas to something beyond us? We are alone with this world, and we've got to take responsibility for our own ideas...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Relativism always has influence, because, as said, no one is fully absolute. BUT, you are arguing about the extremes. I don't think the extremes of relativism or postmodernism will have even 1% of the public in my lifetime, at least.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Dracon II


Saying that the responsibility for, and the source of all rights and liberties lies in humanity is not necessarily tantamount to "depreciating" them. What it does mean is that we have to choose... and the choice is firmly with us and not beyond us.

I suppose this makes some sense.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Relativism always has influence, because, as said, no one is fully absolute. BUT, you are arguing about the extremes. I don't think the extremes of relativism or postmodernism will have even 1% of the public in my lifetime, at least.

Ok -- as long as you promise to protect the rest of us, should you be proven wrong.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Screw that... I'll be too busy living up to my uber-mench standards