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[Asher]

"We don't care" --> the rallying cry of blind Apple fanboys and excuse for ingorance and the proliferation of evil worldwide.

[Nostromo]

Originally posted by Asher

I just don't like Apple's BigBrother approach to music. Look at iTunes' perpetual crippling for example -- what's next?

It's just asking for trouble buying into Apple's fortitified, proprietary media world.

I buy CD's, I don't buy tunes online, so its not an issue for me.

As for the price, the iPod Mini offers significantly less features than the Zen Micro, inferior audio quality (which you claim isn't a factor), and inferior battery life (which is a factor), in addition to locking you into Apple.

5GB Zen Micro: $268

4GB iPod Mini: $249
6GB iPod Mini: $319

Like I said before, I hesitated a long time between the Mini 4GB and the Micro 5GB. Both are great products IMO. But I finally bought the Mini because it was cheaper. The Mini 4GB was 220$ and Micro 5GB was 300$. (The 6GB Mini was 300$ also). With the 80$ I saved, I bought myself a pair of Sennheiser PX-100s. Granted, you get an extra GB and some extra features with the Micro, but I never listen to radio and I have no use for the voice recorder. So I traded an extra GB and features I don't need for a good pair of cans. 18 hours of battery life is good enough for me. And, having tried both, I'm sorry to say that I prefer the iPod's click-wheel.

Now lets talk about the sound quality. First of all, I can assure you that my iPod sounds pretty damn good with the Sennheisers. And, as you might have expected it, it sounds a lot better than the Micro with stock earbuds. I never claimed that sound quality is not a factor. Here's what I said:

The sound quality doesn't get pwned by most of the competition. In a blind test, with the same headphones, you probably couldn't hear the difference between a iPod and a Zen.

Oerdin was just being silly when he claimed that the Zen's sound quality pwned the iPod. Mind you, I'm not denying that Zen's sound quality is slightly better, but saying that it pwns the Mini is just plain silly. But even if Zen's sound slightly better, its probably so subtle that you would need high fidelity cans to hear the difference. In a blind test, with the same cans, few people would hear the difference.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I find it funny that Oerdin is denouncing fanboys after turning into a raving Creative fanboy in a couple days...

A fanboy worships a certain manufacturer/artist/company while all I have endorsed is one product from one company. We've had certain people get up and claim that the Ipod is the best music player on the market and I've set the record straight.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Agathon
I can't think of what these incredible restrictions are, but there's nothing that can't be overcome with some smarts.

Without using a crack you cannot move your files from the Ipod back to your computer. True, people have written illegal cracks to break this copy protection but Apple periodically changes its software to make this cracks stop working. The point is they're trying to restrict how users use their music not that you can find third party software to break their copy protection.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by nostromo
Oerdin was just being silly when he claimed that the Zen's sound quality pwned the iPod. Mind you, I'm not denying that Zen's sound quality is slightly better,

Maybe you missed the quote right under the one you quoted where I said "the sound quality is only marginally better but, with good headphones, the difference is noticable." I then went on to list several ways how the Zen Touch was superior to Apple's Ipod.

[Agathon]

Actually I listened to the Zen and it is worse in quality than my ipod. Too whizz bang. BUt as I said, some people like that.

[Nostromo]

Originally posted by Oerdin

Maybe you missed the quote right under the one you quoted where I said "the sound quality is only marginally better but, with good headphones, the difference is noticable." I then went on to list several ways how the Zen Touch was superior to Apple's Ipod.

I admit I didn't read your last post. But you'll admit that there's a difference between "pwning", like you said in one of your previous posts, and between "marginally better". But like I pointed out, Zen's aren't always cheaper. The iPod mini 6GB and the Zen Micro 5GB are both 300$ here. On the bottom line, I think I made a good, rational decision. I'm still willing to bet that, in a blind test, with the same headphones, you couldn't hear the difference between a iPod and a Zen

[Dinner]

I was only looking at the Hard-Drive players not the flash players. True, Apple's flash player is cheaper but it is missing key and necissary features like... oh... a SCREEN. I don't want to just listen to random play and sometimes I actualy want to pick which song I listen to. The Ipod Shuffle doesn't let users do that.

I do like the flash players and believe that eventually the flash players will control the market. Unfortunately currently they only have a max capacity of 5-6 GB which doesn't hold the quantity of music I want. The flash players are better products though (since you can jog with them without a harddrive breaking and they have few moving parts so less things to break) and once they get the capacity up the flash players will own the market.

[Drake Tungsten]

Oerdin thinks the iPod Mini is a Flash player...

Yep, certainly an informed buyer.

[Pekka]

Oerdin 100 - Agathon 0.

That's a fact right there.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
Actually I listened to the Zen and it is worse in quality than my ipod. Too whizz bang. BUt as I said, some people like that.

Yes, some people prefer their digital audio with substantially less electronic noise.

Others seem to like it, if only because that's what their God is offering to them.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Starchild
Hmmm. I wouldn't regret it if I woke up next to you after a night out but I doubt I'd call the next day.

Best. Reply. Ever.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Agathon
Actually I listened to the Zen and it is worse in quality than my ipod. Too whizz bang. BUt as I said, some people like that.

Sounds similar to Fez's claim that his friend dropped his Ipod onto a carpeted floor and it shattered into pieces. Bogus.

Besides, unless that Zen had the exact same recording on it in the same format, this comparison is utterly meaningless, since the sound quality of the files is the biggest factor in how it will sound on a player.

I stood in the Bose store for quite some time shifting the same headphones (and we're talking some awesomely nice ones) between my Zen and the Ipod they had on display. The Zen was noticeably richer and fuller in sound, with higher highs, deeper lows and the ability to hear the inner textures clearly. The Ipod sounded thin, but guess what? I'm sure it was playing MP3s and I have WMA files on my Zen. And who knows the quality of the recordings on the in-store Ipod?

[Pekka]

Is this a good deal:

Creative Zen Micro 5GB - 195.90 €
iPod Mini 4GB - 209.90 €
iPod Mini 6GB - 259.90 €

But then!

Creative Zen Touch 20GB - 224.90 €
Creative Zen Touch 40GB - 289.90 €

Looking at this, in my price range, the Zen Touch 20GB would be the most attractive. But since it's only few euros more expensive than the Zen Micro 5GB.. is this some trash POS player this Zen Touch?

[Boris Godunov]

The Zen Micro's higher relative price is because it is smaller and "sexier" than the regular Zen touch. In terms of quality, however, the Zen Touch is great, and AFAIK the same as the Micro.