If you use BitTorrent, the terrorists have won...

[Asher]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Man, I wish they had Duran Duran's greatest hits at my rental place...

www.bittorrent.com

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Asher
Who's stealing? Last music I acquired was via a dual-disc CD/DVD hybrid (Rob Thomas' album).

Stop trying to excuse your ineptitude in constructing an argument?

I'm sure you'd be the first to be angered if someone stole code from you.

Personally I don't care much about IP theft, but it's a two-way game, which is fine only as long as you're being consequent.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
I'm sure you'd be the first to be angered if someone stole code from you.

Personally I don't care much about IP theft, but it's a two-way game, which is fine only as long as you're being consequent.

The post you quoted had me saying the last music I got, I bought myself.

But as it happens, code has been stolen from me and code is being stolen from me at work as well (people use our products w/o a license). It's happened to me on a personal level when I made a game in the late 90s, and the game server was compromized and code stolen. I shrugged and opensourced it...

[Pekka]

Boris, you came for more I see? Oh.. what a fool..

"There is also another thing in the field of logic, and it's called "sufficient condition". If X is sufficient condition for theft, then everywhere you find X you find theft despite any other irrelevant characteristic."

Yeah but we were talkign about analogy. There's also another field in what ever. There's no other field in analogy and that was what I was making my point in.

If you punch a guy in the face and he looses all his teeth as a result is the same as if you kick the guy in the face and he looses the teeth, giving exactly the same result, amount of pain etc. BUt it's still not the same thing. But it would fall into the sufficient condition, depending what we are looking at, damage done, the level of wrong of the act itself etc.. it would be the same in comparison. But it wouldn't be the same thing.

"If X is sufficient condition for theft, then everywhere you find X you find theft despite any other irrelevant characteristic."

Yes as for theft, but that's not how the world works. If you steal food because you would die of hunger instead of stealing the same food because you just wanted it anyway is the same thing, but depending how we look at it. In matter of how criminal it is, we can have different opinions. You seem to be wanting to lump all into the same category. Very communist.

And as far as analogies go, THIS IS IRRELEVANT.

"I don't care if you think that the two examples aren't the same. This debate was about theft. If you think that the examples given were not 1:1, it's IRRELEVANT!"

No it's not since I was debating about the analogies which I made clear from early on. Seems like you have problems with syntax too.

"the idea was to know whether or not there is theft. How should we have interpreted your initial comment that stealing at the supermarket isn't the same as copying a song? Was it meant to habe no implication at all to the subject at hand?"

Hmm let's see, I said it's not the same, because the analogy (OK OK I said the analogue) fails. Thus it's not the same. And I said early that there are problems to it, and that I'm nto saying piracy is right or wrong in this argument.

[Fake Boris]

NO PEKKA!

You are absolutely right in saying the examples aren't "the same". This is just as obvious as saying that dolphin and cat and orange aren't the same.

So the question is: why did you even need to say it, if you agree that it has nothing to do with the concept of property being discussed? The worst part of it is that you called it yourself "myth debunking"

What use is there to go in a discussion about boolean operators and say: "blue and red aren't the same!!!"

[Pekka]

Why are you asking me that? Why aren't you asking yourself why did you start debating about blue and red and boolean operators when I made it clear early on what I was talking about.

And I said, the campagn is wrong, it's false analogy. It should say would you steal a DVD from a store. Not download the dvd. IF we were accurate.

That would equal snatching a purse.

BECAUSE the answer to the first one (original)( if I would snatch a purse, no I would not. But if I could make a copy of it and get the stuff in it, hells yeah I'd copy it or 'steal' it, if that was a method of stealing it.

[Fake Boris]

When people say that stealing at a supermarket and downloading music is the same, they are obviously talking about theft. That's why your claim of having "debunked" a myth is completely wrongheaded: to support such an assertion, you would have to demonstrate how the differences you mentioned relate to theft and the sufficient properties related to it. Hence my criticism on the idea of sufficient condition vs. perfect analogy.

To use an extreme example, I could as well say to someone who claims that raping little boys and little girls is the same, that "it feels different because one is upfront and the other is from behind", and be proud for debunking a myth, but that expressed difference would be obviously stranger to the intent of my locutor.

[Fake Boris]

But if I could make a copy of it and get the stuff in it, hells yeah I'd copy it or 'steal' it, if that was a method of stealing it.

That's a silly comparison, because the content of a purse is not likely to be copyrighted (nevermind the question of fake credit cards and IDs, though...)

[Pekka]

No you are not correct even now.

I didn't say I was debating about is downloading theft. I was debating that the original text is false. BECAUSE it's a campagn and it asks questions. And it gives you an answer. But that answer is different if you put the correct analogy to it. Thus it's false.

Is it theft, piracy? Maybe.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Pekka
colon what the hell... what do you do for living? Are you a ... pimp? That's a lot of money on CDs..

Over the last year and a half I've spent 2000$US on DVDs

[Verto]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Over the last year and a half I've spent 2000$US on DVDs

Are you buying TV show season dvds?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
When people say that stealing at a supermarket and downloading music is the same, they are obviously talking about theft.

Downloading music is not theft. Theft involves the owner losing something. No, potential revenue doesn't count.

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
To use an extreme example, I could as well say to someone who claims that raping little boys and little girls is the same, that "it feels different because one is upfront and the other is from behind", and be proud for debunking a myth, but that expressed difference would be obviously stranger to the intent of my locutor.

Not that you can't sodomise little girls...

/me ducks and runs

[aneeshm]

Another question - is copying wrong if the original material is unavailable at the place where you live ? There are no stores for legtimate CDs and DVDs of movies , music , et cetera , which have the stuff I want , in Indore . So I have two options - pirate it , or go without ( even though I'm willing to pay for stuff if it is available ) . What do I do ?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Verto

Are you buying TV show season dvds?

Some, yes...

[KrazyHorse]

Probably about 1000$ on TV stuff and 1000$ on movies.