If you use BitTorrent, the terrorists have won...

[Pekka]

So? Your point changing this fact how? It's still not the same as stealing a Ferrari. Digital schmigital. Spin spinarooni!

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Asher


No, because you didn't buy the movie, you bought a single showing of it.

Wouldn't it be better to say that you've rented a seat in a theatre? Gives it a bit more distance from the subject.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Pekka
So? Your point changing this fact how? It's still not the same as stealing a Ferrari. Digital schmigital. Spin spinarooni!

Unless you give some meaningless metaphysical superiority to material stuff, well yes, it must change your point. That something is made of metal doesn't imply the owner will lose more if the good is stolen.

[Asher]

Originally posted by General Ludd
Wouldn't it be better to say that you've rented a seat in a theatre? Gives it a bit more distance from the subject.

Not the same thing -- you don't pay for the seat, you pay for the showing. The seat is a bonus.

[Pekka]

Oncle Boris, YES SO? My point is still valid and the Ferrari argument is total BS. Copying is still not the same, even though if it would mean someone doesn't get paid. The analogue still fails.

[Colonâ„¢]

Originally posted by Pekka
colon what the hell... what do you do for living? Are you a ... pimp? That's a lot of money on CDs.. jeesyh.. no that I'm trying to say what you should buy, I'm glad for you if you can buy CDs that much.. just interested, what do you do, what is your income, and where do you work? It's an innocent question don't get your panties on twist!

Would you believe me if I said I don't understand myself how I can afford it?

[Fake Boris]

If someone paid 2m to make a movie, and that he got no revenue out of it because of piracy, he would not have lost less than someone who paid 2m for a McLaren and then had it stolen.

That's the same, actually.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Asher
No, because you didn't buy the movie, you bought a single showing of it.

Well **** them. They can be happy with my $10 or they can get nothing. The choice is theirs.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Pekka
colon what the hell... what do you do for living? Are you a ... pimp? That's a lot of money on CDs.. jeesyh.. no that I'm trying to say what you should buy, I'm glad for you if you can buy CDs that much.. just interested, what do you do, what is your income, and where do you work? It's an innocent question don't get your panties on twist!

You see how much your urchasing power improves when you don't live in a country with a 50% income tax and a 20% VAT?

[Pekka]

Colon, I would, but you forgot to tell me your income, job and company you work for. ANSWERS please! My time, precious.. no time.. for these games..

Oncle Boris, no it is not the same. It doesn't make it the same what the hell are you on?

THE SAME situation would be when Ferrari comes out with a new model, no one has seen it yet, it's got new features in it too maybe, and they put it on sale, then some folks go there, take a sneak peak and are able to make the exact copies of the original to themselves while not paying for it, and letting others do the same for themselves. THAT IS THE SAME SITUATION.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
If someone paid 2m to make a movie, and that he got no revenue out of it because of piracy, he would not have lost less than someone who paid 2m for a McLaren and then had it stolen.

That's the same, actually.

The person who made the movie would still have the movie... the guy who bought the McLaren would no longer have it.

A better comparison would be a car dealership purchasing a Mclaren from the manufacturer to sell, but not being able to sell it.

[Pekka]

Oerdin yes yes... ps those are not the ONLY taxes, but then again you'd know guess it. Comparatively lower salaries, etc etc. The DOWNSIDES of this welfare state. It has its good sides too no doubt about it. But those are the bad sides.. Good for the lazy and unfortunate, bad for the dreaming people and who have passion and goals.. unfair, fair, who knows. I'd say very Christian though? I think it's OK, I think a world seriously needs few more places like ours is, but this is not jsut for me.. for most this is it, for me it isn't. Maybe I'll grow wiser in my years and decide to stay anyway.. who knows. I feel like seeing the world.. even if I won't make any more money, I still want to see the world more..

[Fake Boris]

Commerically, the movie itself is worth nothing more than the revenue it can generate.

Or are you going to argue that the guy who had his car stolen, still has pictures and footage of it?

[Fake Boris]

THE SAME situation would be when Ferrari comes out with a new model, no one has seen it yet, it's got new features in it too maybe, and they put it on sale, then some folks go there, take a sneak peak and are able to make the exact copies of the original to themselves while not paying for it, and letting others do the same for themselves. THAT IS THE SAME SITUATION.

No, a product is also worth its WORKMANSHIP, even if it has no physical reality. How hard is that to understand?

If people could only get paid for material, obviously they wouldn't work as hard on IP.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
If someone paid 2m to make a movie, and that he got no revenue out of it because of piracy, he would not have lost less than someone who paid 2m for a McLaren and then had it stolen.

That's the same, actually.

Except study after study has showen that online word of mouth in the download community actually increase sales. Take for instance the Norweigen girl singer/guitarist Annie who released her first album Anniemal in very early 2004. She hardly got any intial sales outside of Norway and none of the big radio companies would give her air time. She didn't even have enough cash to make a video.

Some kind in Norway liked her music and uploaded it on a few P2Pnetworks and the next thing you know anniemal caught on like wildfire. When I bought in last year it was still almost impossible to get and I had to order it online for the Norweigen distributor, but, there was finally a backlog of orders and the Norweigen record company decided to pony up with the money to make a video since sales had picked up so much. Annie started touring in the North America and Europe and finally she was awarded the best new artist in 2004 award. This is dispite the fact that she had no US distributor and hardly any radio stations had bothered to play her music other then a underground stations in places like NYC and SF.

She caught on because she had good music but no one would have heard of her without P2P file sharing.