If you use BitTorrent, the terrorists have won...

[Pekka]

Doh..... I'm saying the original analogue is not 1:1. It fails.
It's not exactly the same situation. You somehow claim it is, it's the same. I'm not saying it's not similar. I'm saying it's not the same, thus analogue fails, there's better analgoue to it, like the one I just provided, and so the original analogue is false.

You can come up with all dopplereffects and how children in Burma would not agree with this because the weather changes due to the Golf current suggests that you might be right if it's Wednesday. I make you're an art major?

[Pekka]

Yeah and to you Ferrari is just a car. You don't know about cars, do you, especially about Ferraris? It's not just a car. It's work of art, just the same. It's a product, just like a movie is. You sell it. If someone takes your product and copies it without touching it, and you don't sell, it's the same situation.

And for the record, WORKMANSHIP goes into Ferraris as well. Or how about Lambos, where they make most of the stuff by hand? It has artistic value to it, designers, and they sell a dream and fantasy along with the physical product.

[Fake Boris]

Errr... get a clue, we're talking about relevant similarities.

Of course having a Ferrari stolen is not the same as having IP stolen, or your penis or your mother or a pen for that matter. However how is that relevant in a discussion about PROPERTY?

You have proven that the two are different, right, but you have not proven how the difference is relevant to the notion of property. I take it you've never done abstract semantic thinking?

And for the record, WORKMANSHIP goes into Ferraris as well. Or how about Lambos, where they make most of the stuff by hand? It has artistic value to it, designers, and they sell a dream and fantasy along with the physical product.

Exactly. Thus replicating a Ferrari would be as much theft as would replicating a movie be.

[Pekka]

relevant similarities You aren't trying to squeeze yourself out of this are you?

Like I've' been saying ALL THE TIME it's NOT 1:1. I didn't say it's not similar. I said it's not 1:1, the REAL analogue would go differently, thus the original one IS FALSE. It's not like you can have 5 analogues, all valid to a situation and then you just choose which one works the best this time.

That's what I'm saying, the analogue fails!

Not that pirating is right or wrong.

Semantics is actually one of the most relevant things in my field, thanks. But so is logic.

Read what I said. I'm telling you the analogue fails. If there's a rule about semantics when it comes to analogues, then it's the one that the best one that fits is the analogue and everything else is NOT the analogue.

[Pekka]

BORIS; EXACTLY !!!!!!!!!! I SAID replicating a Ferrari would be more correct!... I wish you had read my freaking posts though, like from the beginning.

Now you admit there IS a better analogue. Case closed.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Commerically, the movie itself is worth nothing more than the revenue it can generate.

Then, if the guy's movie is worthless (and also not a material object) how can it be stolen?

[Colonâ„¢]

The analogy is completely beside the point. Firstly, property rights aren't absolute and there are limits, such as expropriation. Secondly, intellectual property rights were created to guarantee that inventors and artists could enjoy an income out of their creations, thereby also to stimulating them to create further. Such rights are even less absolute since most forms expire after a period.
This is because if the fundamentally different nature of intellectual property rights. As Pekka already pointed out, if you take away a car from someone that person will suffer from it, but if you copy a song or a paper, the owner of the original piece will not suffer from it. Society is served with a maximal spread of information, and without it you'd have to reinvent the wheel with every living person born on this planet.
Hence, Intellectual property rights are a difficult and always imperfect balancing act between the interests of the authors, and the interests of the wider public. It is from such point of view you have to consider the copying/piracy debate: and painting things into moralistic good/wrong terms serves no one.

[Colonâ„¢]

Pekka, I'm not playing games, honestly. I'm pretty sure you are making more money than I am right now.

[Pekka]

Colon, no it isn't since I made my case on the analogue alone. If you want to debate about something else, then it might not be so relevant.

The campagn goes would you snatch a purse. NO. Stop pirating etc blaablaablaa.

What they SHOULD campagn is: Would you replicate a Ferrari? The only bad point in this campagn is everyone would say YEAAAAAH W00t!!! I WOULD! Sign me UP! Then they'd force the answer to the screen 'no you woudln't'. So why do you steal software and movies? Yeah I make copies of them and I would make the ferrari too if I could.

That's how it should go. Thus the campagn is false.

It could be done in different ways. Stating that piracy is wrong and taking money from the makers of the product.

[asleepathewheel]

to prosecuting theives

[Verto]

The excuse about downloading songs just to see if you like them is no longer valid, as most online stores allow you to preview most, if not all of a song.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Verto
The excuse about downloading songs just to see if you like them is no longer valid, as most online stores allow you to preview most, if not all of a song.

All of the stores I know of allow you to sample 30 seconds @ 32/48 Kbps...

[Pekka]

The REAL analogy would go. Would you steal a computer from the store? NO. Would you steal a DVD from a store?

That's more accurate. Hey, I'm sure the IP rights of a Ferrari are there too. They have trademark crap too, and have vendors.

[Verto]

Originally posted by Asher

All of the stores I know of allow you to sample 30 seconds @ 32/48 Kbps...

OMFG THIS IS HORRIBLE!!

If you don't know whether or not the song is good after 30 seconds, then the song sucks.

[Pekka]

'if you can't figure out if the car is good after you test driven it for 3 minutes, then it sucks'.

Again, not making excuses for piracy. Just shooting down false analogies .