PRC creates online propaganda units

[pchang]

You bet. Who do you think keeps propping up our debt and trade deficit by keeping large numbers of dollars in reserve?

[Agathon]

1.) China has invaded Vietnam, India, Tibet, and fought against Security council authorized UN troops...all since WWII.

I'll answer all of these.

China invaded Vietnam 25 years ago. Today's PRC shares little in common with the China of 1989, let alone 1978.

China invaded Tibet because if they had not done so, India would have. This is what happens to weak states between two territorial rivals. I think this is terrible, but it is realpolitik.

China, India and Russia have had various skirmishes, but nothing particularly incendiary. Again, this was a long time ago.

2.) China has vilolently put down internal disent...to the point of turning the military on their own people.

Again, this was 15 years ago. Here's an interesting thought. Say you want to liberalize your country and your economy. Do you do it piecemeal over a period of years, gradually transforming your country into what you would like? Or do you allow a group to overthrow the system and radically open it up to the world.

There's a former communist country that did that called Russia. China's patient series of reforms seems to be a far more sensible way of doing it – one that has protected the country from foreign meddling.

You simply cannot change a country that big with such an entrenched economic system overnight.

The real questions are: is China a better country than it was 15 years ago, and can we reasonably expect it to be a better country in 15 years time. I think the answer to the first is unquestionably "yes" and probably the same for the second.

3.) There are political prisoners in China...lot's of them.

Other than the fact that one nation's criminal is another's political prisoner, the United States has no business telling other countries about incarceration.

4.) China is the only real friend to the world's most reviled regime.

For reasons of political convenience. North Korea is a buffer against American encroachments against China. The Chinese aren't stupid, they know that American troops are in that area of the world to contain China. Americans are stupid if they think that American troops are there solely to protect South Korea and Japan against North Korea. The US has publicly stated that US troops will remain in Korea even if the two Koreas unite.

5.) China seeks to threaten, bully, and invade a country that has become very democratic...all in the name of a nebulous "one China" policy...very reminesent of Hitler's words about Germany before WWII.

China seeks to reclaim a renegade province. That same province has, for most of its history agreed with the "One China" policy with the sole difference being over who ran the one China.

It's all moot anyway. As China keeps liberalizing more and more Taiwanese are moving to the mainland and investing in China. The trend is towards economic integration and political integration will inevitably follow.

6.) China now seeks to control the free flow of ideas on the internet through state sponsored "opinion forming". haha

And other countries do not seek to propagandize?

The trend in China is towards freer flows of information. Technology will probably do more than anything else to promote this. In 20 years no one will be worrying about it.

Yeah...they are getting better, but they ain't even close to benign. If they can be held in check another 100 years then they may be able to join a free world community, but that day is far in the future.

This is a parochial American view. It is not the view of most of the world.

Until then, a repressive government that has their kind of power is a threat to us all...not just the US.

How so? I can think of absolutely no reason why China, which has radically tied itself to international markets would want to rock the boat. Their policies are working.

The United States sees China as an emerging strategic rival. Hence, American elites play up the Chinese threat and the American media follows along. Other nations with similar interests act similarly. No one else really cares.

If you can't see this, then you need to move countries to get a better perspective.

[pchang]

Wow, I'm going to have to agree with Imran here. Apologies to UR.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Agathon

And tell me. What in the last fifty years have the Japanese done to warrant such worry from Agathon?

Dude, if you come from where I do, you will find quite a few older guys who were Japanese prisoners of war. They hold a grudge, and after they tell you what happened to them, it isn't hard to develop a dim view of Japanese militarism.

Yep. for those who survived it, too.

I'll take your indictment of the PRC and raise you the United States in the last twenty years. The death toll from US policy has been substantially higher methinks.

The PRC lacks our force projection capabilities.

[Agathon]

Whatever.

When will Americans wake up and smell the coffee? I bet even the Chinese are more sceptical of government propaganda than you lot.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Agathon
Whatever.

When will Americans wake up and smell the coffee? I bet even the Chinese are more sceptical of government propaganda than you lot.

I smell the coffee every morning.

And we're just a bunch of good, God-fearing enlightened folks from the best country in the world bringing enlightenment and freedom and democracy (and of course globalization and the potential for higher profits ) to the dark masses of the world by force, if they won't see the light on their own. So what's the problem?

If it's good enough for the Romans, it's good enough for US(A)!

[Agathon]

You know..

Instead of *****ing about it, what do you think the Chinese should do?

Should they completely overthrow their political system overnight? That would be a disaster for China.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Sounds just fine to me.

[Agathon]

[MichaeltheGreat]

Ask a simple question...

[Agathon]

And the resident simpleton will answer it.....

pwnage!!!

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Agathon
And the resident simpleton will answer it.....

pwnage!!!

Hardly pwnage, given you're a target with about the same difficulty rating as fish doing a backstroke in a barrel.

[Agathon]

Sorry, that dog don't hunt.

[pchang]

Oh, but it does. My sig is just one example....

[Agathon]

What was that from?