10 most rightist posters on poly

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ned
The right wants free trade because it allows everyone the opportunity to do well.

Which means that they want them to collect recyclable material in dump yards for 85 cents a day.

[DarkCloud]

The road to prosperity is forward, not backwards as the Dems (the real reactionaries and conservatives) advocate.

which is, of course, why republicans have traditionally supported 'buy american' only movements becasue they are 'patriotic.' ... correct?

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dont worry agathon, I'm still getting around replying to you.

[Agathon]

You better. This is a reminder.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Kidicious


That doesn't matter. The meaning of words change as people use them differently. The meaning of every word changes with time. The fact that dictionaries must be updated shows this. The dictionary definition for "conservative" is outdated, or was never accurate. You can see that if you look at the definition for "reactionary." "Reactionary" means extreme conservative.

I agree, but only because I redefined all of the words in your original post.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ned
On the continuing debate on the origins of WWII: Japan v. China, I don't doubt Japan's aggressive foreign policy. But the major cause of Chinese outrage that lead to the breakout of hostilities at the end of the 20's was Versailles and the give-away of Chinese territory to Japan. Now we all know that Japan would not have been able to get that province without British support, which in fact was given. From the quotes provided by Molly, it appears that Wilson's objections were again "overridden" by Britain so that Britain could reward one of its allies.

When in doubt, make it up, eh, Ned ?


You blithely ignore the facts that Japan attacks China twice before the outbreak of World War One, presses the Twenty One Demands on China in 1915, and had invaded and annexed Korea, Formosa/Taiwan and the Ryukyu Islands, all before 1914, 1918 or 1919.

They were all territories that were either seen by the Chinese as vassal states or sent tribute and envoys, a practice interrupted by the upstart Japan.

Good grief, I've even provided quotes from a Chinese Imperial General and a Chinese President illustrating that they knew who the enemy was and no indication whatsoever that they believed the British Empire to be behind Japan's belligerence and expansionism.

And the best you can do, is not even quote Wilson or the Versailles Treaty, but just 'interpret' a quote I've used.

So Japan would not have been able to get the former German Territory without British support, eh ?

Well other than a small contingent of Empire troops sent from Tientsin to the siege of Tsingtao after it had already begun, I don't think you have a clue as to what you're talking about.

How was the British Empire going to stop Japan from keeping Shantung and Tsingtao ? Go to war again after the ending of WWI when the British Empire was hugely in debt and had lost so many trained soldiers and sailors, warships and merchant vessels ? Project an exhausted army into the treaty ports and Hong Kong ?

Dream on.

Let's see what happened at Versailles and not in your fantasy world:

" Singularly, the places reserved for the delegation from China were not to be occupied. This was the one rift in the lute, for the Chinese commissioners, in protest against the clauses of the treaty agreeing to the transfer of the German leaseholds to Japan, decided not to sign the treaty.

A month before the Chinese plenipotentiaries had made a formal request of the Peace Conference that the questions involved in the Shantung matter be not included in the treaty, but be postponed for future consideration. This request was denied.

On the morning of June 28th M. Lou Tseng Tsiang, president of the Chinese delegation, asked that China be permitted to sign with the explanatory note, "Under the reservation made at the plenary session of May 6, 1919, and relative to the question of Shantung (Articles 156, 157, and 158)." He pointed out that the Swedish plenipotentiary signed the act of the Congress of Vienna with a reservation.

The request was not acceded to by the conference, and when the time for signature came, the Chinese did not respond. The attitude of the Chinese delegation in this matter was consistent with its point of view that Japan should have been asked by the Peace Conference to vacate Shantung and turn all German property over to China. "

signing the treaty:

" The delegation from the United States was the first to be called up after the Germans. President Wilson rose, and as he began his walk to the historic table, followed in order by Secretary Lansing, Colonel House, General Bliss, and Mr. White, other delegates stretched out their hands to congratulate him.

He came forward with a broad smile, and signed his name at the spot indicated by M. William Martin, director of the protocol. Mr. Lloyd George followed the American delegation, together with Mr. Balfour, Lord Milner, Mr. Bonar Law, and Mr. Barnes; and when these five men had signed, the delegates from the British dominions followed, a notable array of men representing the greatest power the world has ever seen. "

http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/parispeaceconf_signing.htm

Why Wilson signed:

"At the front of this great treaty is put the Covenant of the League of Nations. It will also be at the front of the Austrian, treaty and the Hungarian treaty and the Bulgarian treaty and the treaty with Turkey. Every one of them will contain the Covenant of the League of Nations, because you cannot work any of them without the Covenant of the League of Nations. Unless you get the united, concerted purpose and power of the great Governments of the world behind this settlement, it will fall down like a house of cards. There is only one power to put behind the liberation of mankind, and that is the power of mankind. It is the power of the united moral forces of the world, and in the Covenant of the League of Nations the moral forces of the world are mobilized."

-Woodrow Wilson

And why did Japan get Shantung ?

He needed Japanese support for his League of Nations, and the price to be paid was Shantung. Accordingly the League of Nations was included.

Still, you can always use that line you used before about Wilson being a patsy of the tricky British and French can't you ?

Even though there wasn't an ounce of proof for such an assertion.

[molly bloom]

Oh, and Ned- here's what someone even you might trust has to say about Wilson, Japan and future Japanese aggression in China:

" Some of Wilson's compromises violated his belief in self-determination. This was the right of all people to decide for themselves who would govern them.

One compromise, for example, gave to Japan Germany's colonial rights in the Shantung area of China. China protested the decision. It asked that control of Shantung be returned to the Chinese government. But President Wilson needed Japan's support for the league of nations. So he accepted Japan's demand for control of Shantung.

In East Asia, Japanese control over parts of China created serious tensions. Both decisions helped plant the seeds for the bloody harvest of World War Two twenty years later. But allied leaders at the Paris peace conference were not looking far into the future. As one person said at the time: "they divided Europe like people cutting up a tasty pie" .

http://www.voanews.com/specialenglish/Archive/a-2001-10-15-1-1.cfm

Yes, folks- that's the Voice of America speaking !

[Impaler[WrG]]

Incase no one has mentioned him yet I nominate Dino Doc.

So is their going to be a poll for most rightwing poly poster coming up soon, I dont want to miss that.

[Drake Tungsten]

and had invaded and annexed Korea, Formosa/Taiwan and the Ryukyu Islands

Really, why do you persist in using the Ryukyus as an example even after I showed that it is a misleading one? The Ryukyus were conquered in 1609...

Maybe I'll correct some other errors at a later date. Then again, I'm rather busy and this is starting to lose its fun...

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

and had invaded and annexed Korea, Formosa/Taiwan and the Ryukyu Islands

Really, why do you persist in using the Ryukyus as an example even after I showed that it is a misleading one? The Ryukyus were conquered in 1609...

Maybe I'll correct some other errors at a later date. Then again, I'm rather busy and this is starting to lose its fun...

You've done nothing of the sort.

The king of the Ryukyu Islands continued to receive his title from the Emperor of China even after the Japanese invaded in the 17th Century.

China continued to see the Islands as a tributary state- oh, and surprisingly enough, so did the inhabitants of the Ryukyus who were still sending envoys to the Son of Heaven in 1877.

And what's this ? The Japanese Empire only FORMALLY annexed them in 1879 ?

Gosh, isn't that exactly what I've been saying ?


How about instead of feebly attempting to patronize me you do something useful, like posting anything relevant, any time.

It'd certainly be a whole new beginning for you.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Kidicious


That's obviously just your POV.

Yeah. I distinguish between those who would build freeways and the like and those who will use every lame excuse in the book to block them.

Should I even bring up the subject of nuclear power?

There is a party of progress and a party of opposition to progress. You know which party is which.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ned
There is a party of progress and a party of opposition to progress. You know which party is which.

Yeah, I do. You're just deluded.

[Ramo]

Ned's right, after all it's not like the Republicans haven't been trying to block stem cell research these past few weeks.

[Ned]

Originally posted by molly bloom
Oh, and Ned- here's what someone even you might trust has to say about Wilson, Japan and future Japanese aggression in China:

" Some of Wilson's compromises violated his belief in self-determination. This was the right of all people to decide for themselves who would govern them.

One compromise, for example, gave to Japan Germany's colonial rights in the Shantung area of China. China protested the decision. It asked that control of Shantung be returned to the Chinese government. But President Wilson needed Japan's support for the league of nations. So he accepted Japan's demand for control of Shantung.

In East Asia, Japanese control over parts of China created serious tensions. Both decisions helped plant the seeds for the bloody harvest of World War Two twenty years later. But allied leaders at the Paris peace conference were not looking far into the future. As one person said at the time: "they divided Europe like people cutting up a tasty pie" .

http://www.voanews.com/specialenglish/Archive/a-2001-10-15-1-1.cfm

Yes, folks- that's the Voice of America speaking !

Well, it appears the "official US version" of history is that Versailles laid the groundwork for WWII in both the East and the West. I hope you will at least concede that much.

As to the role of Wilson: I never said he did not cooperate. I said the reason he cooperated was that he was a dumbkopf and was easily manipulated by Britain in France. While the VOA blurb does not so state, other renditions of what happened at Versailles also conclude that Wilson was steamrolled by the Brits and the French and they conclude that Wilson must of have been naive -- at best.

[Ramo]

Naturally as a Princeton Professor and President, Wilson was a dumbkopf...

[Ned]

Originally posted by Ramo
Naturally as a Princeton Professor and President, Wilson was a dumbkopf...

Yeah, he may have been smart, but he was easily manipulated regardless.