Americans, are you still proud of your soldiers?

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by BlackCat

Hadn't expected otherwise from you - guess that it's your standard defense.



Are you saying that it is deliberately that they have done it ?



isn't that the whole purpose of this thread ? and don't you support this ?

BlackCat Framing strategy: Pretend you didn't read anything someone says and try to tell them they said something else.

When did that happen ? If that should be a fact, how come that there are people at court because they has apparently broken the Geneva Conventions ?

Ummm...because "those people" are the President of the United States and members of his Cabinet.

Here's the memo, read it for yourself DL:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/documents/dojinterrogationmemo20020801.pdf

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Ted Striker



BlackCat Framing strategy: Pretend you didn't read anything someone says and try to tell them they said something else.

And The Ted uses his usual strategy : don't answer a question.

Ummm...because "those people" are the President of the United States and members of his Cabinet.

Here's the memo, read it for yourself DL:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...mo20020801.pdf

Really, where in this 50 page memo are your claims proved ?

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by BlackCat


And The Ted uses his usual strategy : don't answer a question.

Already answered the question. I'm not going to repeat myself because of your laziness and inability to read.

Really, where in this 50 page memo are your claims proved ?

Probably the part where they say something to the effect of the "The Geneva Conventions don't apply to them," part.

[Ted Striker]

Sorry, I gave you the wrong memo. But that "nice" 50 page memo is the one where they redefine certain kinds of torture so they are not considered torture.

Here's the one that is addressed to the President, from Alberto Gonzales, that says, EXACTLY:

... the Geneva Convention III on the Treatment of Prisoners of War (GPW) does not apply to the conflict with Al Queda.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4999148/site/newsweek/

PWN3D

[Verto]

Most of our soldiers are trash whose true nature would disgrace our country. All this myth about the redblooded 'murcan heroes is for the most part, bull****. The low pay of the military serves to attract the least qualified, least educated, and least intelligent America has to offer. This explains why so many have been so quick to violate the original principles of the United States - racist rednecks with guns.

Much of the same can be said about the legions of dimwits driving around with their SUV plastered with "I HEART JESUS SUPPORT THE TROOPS AND GEORGE BUSH GAYS=SIN=BURN"

[Geronimo]

Ted would you say the geneva conventions apply to all conflicts of any kind anywhere? The geneva conventions very carefully describe situations in which various portions of it do not apply. How can you on the one hand claim that the geneva conventions are sacred guides to all conduct at all times while simultaneously advocating ignoring those portions you don't like?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by JohnT
Tortured some egg rolls. It wasn't pretty.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Verto
Most of our soldiers are trash whose true nature would disgrace our country. All this myth about the redblooded 'murcan heroes is for the most part, bull****. The low pay of the military serves to attract the least qualified, least educated, and least intelligent America has to offer. This explains why so many have been so quick to violate the original principles of the United States - racist rednecks with guns.

Much of the same can be said about the legions of dimwits driving around with their SUV plastered with "I HEART JESUS SUPPORT THE TROOPS AND GEORGE BUSH GAYS=SIN=BURN"

Obviously any intelligent, educated qualified person will only choose to partake in those activities that will secure the most money for themselves eh?

[Verto]

If Job A pays 4 dollars, and Job B pays 40, which do you think the best and brightest will pursue, for the most part?

Job A will be filled by whatever dregs remain. The US military is staffed with a minority of intelligent people, and a majority of mediocre personnel.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Americans, are you still proud of your soldiers?

Yes.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Geronimo
Ted would you say the geneva conventions apply to all conflicts of any kind anywhere? The geneva conventions very carefully describe situations in which various portions of it do not apply. How can you on the one hand claim that the geneva conventions are sacred guides to all conduct at all times while simultaneously advocating ignoring those portions you don't like?

I've never "advocated ignoring those portions of it that I don't like." wtf?

You're confusing me with George Bush.

[SlowwHand]

Re: Americans, are you still proud of your soldiers?

Originally posted by Tingkai
The New York Times has obtained a US army report that tells how American soldiers beat to death two prisoners and tortured numerous others in Afghanistan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/20/international/asia/20abuse.html?pagewanted=8&ei=5094&en=6cca0512a38427c3&hp&ex=1116648000&partner=homepage

The behaviour of the US soliders and officers are truely disgusting.

Yeah, I know a lot of Americans here will try to make excuses, but it won't cut no water. What the American soldiers did was deadly torture, plain and simple. And then the brass tried to cover it up.

It's sickening.

What happened to you America? You should be, and could be a shining example of democracy, but instead you lower yourself to the likes of Saddam, Myanmar and China.

Bringing freedom to the world, Bull ****

If Americans have any decency then they should be ashamed of what happened and demand justice.

Just look at some of the crimes committed by U.S. soldiers.


- "He screamed out, 'Allah! Allah! Allah!' and my first reaction was that he was crying out to his god," Specialist Jones said to investigators. "Everybody heard him cry out and thought it was funny."

"Other Third Platoon M.P.'s later came by the detention center and stopped at the isolation cells to see for themselves, Specialist Jones said.

"It became a kind of running joke, and people kept showing up to give this detainee a common peroneal strike just to hear him scream out 'Allah,' " he said. "It went on over a 24-hour period, and I would think that it was over 100 strikes."

- "They stood him up, and at one point Selena stepped on his bare foot with her boot and grabbed him by his beard and pulled him towards her," he went on. "Once Selena kicked Dilawar in the groin, private areas, with her right foot. She was standing some distance from him, and she stepped back and kicked him."

- One of the coroners later translated the assessment at a pre-trial hearing for Specialist Brand, saying the tissue in the young man's legs "had basically been pulpified."

"I've seen similar injuries in an individual run over by a bus," added Lt. Col. Elizabeth Rouse, the coroner, and a major at that time.

- there was probable cause to charge 27 officers and enlisted personnel with criminal offenses... So far, only the seven soldiers have been charged, including four last week.

- A cover up by senior officers: "Two months after those autopsies[that clearly indicated the men had been beaten to death], the American commander in Afghanistan, then-Lt. Gen. Daniel K. McNeill, said he had no indication that abuse by soldiers had contributed to the two deaths."

- Soldiers claiming they did not receive training to tell them they should not beat people to death.

- Another soldier told investigators that Sergeant Loring lightheartedly referred to Specialist Corsetti, then 23, as "the King of Torture."

- Beating up the mentally disturbed: "Some of the same M.P.'s took a particular interest in an emotionally disturbed Afghan detainee who was known to eat his feces and mutilate himself with concertina wire. The soldiers kneed the man repeatedly in the legs and, at one point, chained him with his arms straight up in the air."

- When the detainees were beaten or kicked for "noncompliance," one of the interpreters, Ali M. Baryalai said, it was often "because they have no idea what the M.P. is saying."

- One M.P. said he had given him five peroneal strikes for being "noncompliant and combative." Another gave him three or four more for being "combative and noncompliant." Some guards later asserted that he had been hurt trying to escape.

- "It looked like he had been dead for a while, and it looked like nobody cared," the medic, Staff Sgt. Rodney D. Glass, recalled.

- Mr. Habibullah's [a prisoner] autopsy, completed on Dec. 8, showed bruises or abrasions on his chest, arms and head. There were deep contusions on his calves, knees and thighs. His left calf was marked by what appeared to have been the sole of a boot.

- In interviews after their release, the men described their treatment at Bagram as far worse than at Guantánamo. While all of them said they had been beaten, they complained most bitterly of being stripped naked in front of female soldiers for showers and medical examinations, which they said included the first of several painful and humiliating rectal exams.

- "In sworn statements to Army investigators, soldiers describe one female interrogator with a taste for humiliation stepping on the neck of one prostrate detainee and kicking another in the genitals. They tell of a shackled prisoner being forced to roll back and forth on the floor of a cell, kissing the boots of his two interrogators as he went. Yet another prisoner is made to pick plastic bottle caps out of a drum mixed with excrement and water as part of a strategy to soften him up for questioning."

Shame on you America, shame on you.

Play the rules of the other team. The one's hiding among their own civilians.
The one's who are so adept at killing civilians, insuspecting and innocent.

Shame,shame. How sickening.
Depends on your point of view.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Ted Striker


I've never "advocated ignoring those portions of it that I don't like." wtf?

You're confusing me with George Bush.

the geneva specifically exempts un-uniformed combatants from the protections promised to uniformed combatants. Both george bush and the geneva conventions agree on that point yet it would appear that you do not. Therefore I observe that you accept those portions of the geneva conventions you agree with while rejecting those you do not like.

What portion of the geneva convention do you feel george bush has been ignoring?

[Ted Striker]

The part you just mentioned.

Colin Powell agrees with me.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Verto
If Job A pays 4 dollars, and Job B pays 40, which do you think the best and brightest will pursue, for the most part?

Job A will be filled by whatever dregs remain. The US military is staffed with a minority of intelligent people, and a majority of mediocre personnel.

Job a is selling drugs, job b is working as a grade school teacher. Job a pays far better than job b. Which job do you think will be filled by the 'remaining dregs' of society?