Americans, are you still proud of your soldiers?

[Japher]

Heck, if Saddam would of handed over his WoMD none of this would of happened... pin this one on Saddam too.

my 2 cents

[Ted Striker]

Tingkai,

If you're looking for outrage, you're not going to find it.

I am personally outraged but the American public as a whole is apathetic towards things like this.

It's about as sick as cutting people's heads off on tv, but people don't really give a damn. Sad really.

That damn memo that Alberto Gonzales drafted to the President is responsible for all of this.

[Tingkai]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Americans, are you still proud of your soldiers?

Originally posted by lord of the mark


As for officers, when there is EVIDENCE against officers, they should be charged.

We have evidence against the officers:
"Two months after those autopsies[that clearly indicated the men had been beaten to death], the American commander in Afghanistan, then-Lt. Gen. Daniel K. McNeill, said he had no indication that abuse by soldiers had contributed to the two deaths."

That alone is conduct unbecoming of an officer. McNeil should be court martialed and kicked out of the military. That would send a clear signal that the U.S. military does not tolerate the covering up of crimes.

[Ted Striker]

This is starting to remind me of lack of self-censure that occured in the Catholic Church when priests were found out to be enjoying kids.

Wrist slaps are going to be handed out.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Tingkai,

If you're looking for outrage, you're not going to find it.

I am personally outraged but the American public as a whole is apathetic towards things like this.

It's about as sick as cutting people's heads off on tv, but people don't really give a damn. Sad really.

That damn memo that Alberto Gonzales drafted to the President is responsible for all of this.

I think you're right, but I wish it wasn't true.

My god, the US is the most powerful country in the world and its founding principles are of freedom, democracy and justice.

This is what pisses me off so much. Most Americans I know are decent people. They believe and have what most people in the world would cherish as true and valuable. And then the US government squanders and abuses this greatness.

Imagine how much better the world would be if the US government truly stood and supported freedom, democracy and justice.

[DerSchwarzfalke]

Does being born and raised in America somehow make one immune to human nature? No, it does not, and no one claims that it does. The soldiers in question have done what soldiers throughout history have done and will continue to do. Is it a shame? Yes, a massive one. Should those involved be punished? Heavily. But should the United States and its armed forces be specifically held accountable? Not unless you are willing to condemn humanity as a whole.

The only argument I make here is that our government has put its soldiers in positions to do great wrongs. If only it didn't have to be so ...

[lord of the mark]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Americans, are you still proud of your soldiers?

Originally posted by Tingkai


We have evidence against the officers:
"Two months after those autopsies[that clearly indicated the men had been beaten to death], the American commander in Afghanistan, then-Lt. Gen. Daniel K. McNeill, said he had no indication that abuse by soldiers had contributed to the two deaths."

McNeil was in charge of the entire operation in Afghanistan. Its quite possible that he never saw the autopsy results. That you take this as proof of a criminal offense, with no further information, is merely evidence of your OWN lynch mob mentality, and lack of respect for the rule of law.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
This is starting to remind me of lack of self-censure that occured in the Catholic Church when priests were found out to be enjoying kids.

Wrist slaps are going to be handed out.

you mean the soldiers, instead of being investigated and charged, have been reassigned to other units?

[Drake Tungsten]

Does being born and raised in America somehow make one immune to human nature? No, it does not, and no one claims that it does.

Very true. We may be better than any other people on the face of the earth, but we're still human...

[Spec]

Re: Americans, are you still proud of your soldiers?

Would you be proud of sheep if you sent it to war?

[DinoDoc]

8/10

You get extra points for the faux sincerity and getting replies.

[JohnT]

Yeah, but he should be deducted at least a point for painting with such a broad brush and not understanding basic truths about the nature of organizations, irrespective of their mission or beliefs.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by JohnT
Yeah, but he should be deducted at least a point for painting with such a broad brush and not understanding basic truths about the nature of organizations, irrespective of their mission or beliefs.

Isn't that the point of a troll?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why should I be ashamed of Oerdin? Do you know something about him I don't?

I frequently leave the toilet seat up and sometimes... I even use the last of the toilet paper without replacing it. I've been told that's wrong but I do it any way.

[Tingkai]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Americans, are you still proud of your soldiers?

Originally posted by lord of the mark


McNeil was in charge of the entire operation in Afghanistan. Its quite possible that he never saw the autopsy results. That you take this as proof of a criminal offense, with no further information, is merely evidence of your OWN lynch mob mentality, and lack of respect for the rule of law.

No. Rank has its privileges and its obligations.

There was a time in the US military when officers in charge took responsibility for what happened on their watch, even if they did not know about it -- the logic being that the commanders should know when major FU happen. The buck stops here.

I have known officers like that, and those were the officers who commanded great respect, not because of their rank, but because of their deportment. And then there were the officers who always tried to duck the difficult decisions, the ones who ignored obvious problems.