Robert Byrd is a horrible human being, version III

[Jaguar]

No, I'm not ignoring the context. Comparing his remarks on a Fox News talk show to a Chris Rock routine is ludicrous.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

Excuse me, but I thought that those who defend the Confederate Flag say it's not a symbol of racism at all, correct?

I don't like the display of the flag on public buildings because A) it's a traitorous emblem and B) it is a bitter reminder of slavery to blacks, so it's damned insensitive. But I can easily see the position of those who don't believe it's a racist symbol. So defending the confederate flag doesn't make one a de facto racist. Especially if one is from a region where the populace tends to get pretty up-in-arms about the flag issue, and defending it scores political points.

Ironically West Virginia became a state by refusing to secede. So they were never part of the CSA and never flew the confederate flag.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

What about the swastika?

Has a history of non-Nazi use for thousands of years on almost every continent. My dad had an American Indian headress from the 1930s with two beadwork swastikas on it. I wish that we could liberate this symbol from the Nazis here in the west. In India it is still much more often identified with their own culture than with the Nazis.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


What about the swastika?

What about it?

[Berzerker]

Jaguar

No, I'm not ignoring the context. Comparing his remarks on a Fox News talk show to a Chris Rock routine is ludicrous.

Why? Chris Rock and Robert Byrd both used a meaning for the word recognised by many people as valid. The fact you dont get that doesn't make him a racist. You are ignoring the context...

[Kuciwalker]

Eh, Chris Rock doing comedy is very different context from Robert Byrd on TV.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Sikander


Ironically West Virginia became a state by refusing to secede. So they were never part of the CSA and never flew the confederate flag.

However at least some counties that were included in West Virginia did sympathize with the confederacy, in particular the Kanawha valley in the southern end of the state, IIUC. Also Charles County in the panhandle, I think.

[Drake Tungsten]

I personally don't think the West Virginian voting populace is racist and would tolerate sending a guy they believed to be so back to the senate.

Who cares if your senator is racist if he delivers the pork like Byrd does? The man is a goldmine for West Virginia.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Eh, Chris Rock doing comedy is very different context from Robert Byrd on TV.

Yet their use of the word is the same..ie. using ****** to mean a person with a specific type of behavior- why Chris Rock states not all blacks are ******s, and why Byrd could state that some whites are ******s.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Boris... I'm still waiting.

Kuci, Jag - how many times have you said something is "gay" to mean it's "stupid?" How often do your friends use it?

Does that make you and them homophobic bigots, yes or no?

[vee4473]

Boris, just wanted to get it clear in my head what you are saying.

is it ok to call someone a ****** if you use it in a tongue in cheek fashion...kinda like "it depends on what the meaning of the word ****** is?"

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Jaguar
He uses ****** as an insult. If I call a straight person a *** for doing something stupid, it is an insult against homosexuals. The same applies here.

Berz is already on the right track here, but I'll reiterate: Is calling something "gay" indicative the person saying it is an anti-gay bigot?

You made the argument earlier that Byrd wasn't stupid, so you didn't buy that it was just a stupid comment. I hope you see the inherent contradiction here, since your interpretation would rely on him being even stupider.

I can't really give you an exact answer on Byrd's motives, but I don't think he changed his world view on the issue in two years.

"I can't give a good reason, but I knows he's evil!" Right.

I've changed my world view on many issues in far less than two years. You seem to be contradicting yourself, at any rate. First his changes of heart are too slow, then they are too fast... if you're going to be outraged, at least be consistent, for pete's sake.

I think some other factor caused it. As I said, he's an opportunist. Not necessarily a bad quality in a politician, but I think his opportunism is also the main reason for his "change of heart."

What "opportunity" would Byrd be seizing by reversing his position on the hate crimes bill? Do you think his reelection chances in WV would be hurt if he hadn't? Hardly.

You lauded it.

No, it really isn't. I think it is the crux of the matter. He hasn't learned his lesson at all. Saying over and over again that his... slip of the tongue... is irrelevant doesn't make it true.

That you think it's the crux of the matter just proves your argument is damned weak.

He is very ignorant on a lot of issues. He has moved in the right direction, but the rest of the country moved there a hell of a lot faster. He gets no points from me for grudgingly moving towards tolerance.

Too slow now! Too fast before! Can't take it anymore, aaaargghh!!!

Really, how has he changed his voting behavior? He filibustered every piece of legislation he could. There aren't any votes in the Senate where one side has a clearly racist position these days. So saying he hasn't voted in a racist manner since the 70s or so doesn't prove anything.

So in other words, you won't believe him no matter what he does. That's very understanding and fair-minded of you.

I'm not sure if you've engaged in the DeLay witchhunt, but Byrd OWNS DeLay in legislative Pork production. He is the all-time champion of Pork. That's a big reason why WV continues voting for him. That's a different subject in some respects, but I thought I should bring it up. Byrd is shamelessly corrupt as well.

And how many times do I have to say that don't think Byrd is a sterling person? But he's no more guilty of this than most members of Congress.

But "DeLay Witchhunt?" Your non-partisan vaneer comes off pretty quick when you make stupid statements like this.

Yeah, it's a witchhunt to go after a politician who has been blatantly unethical recently, but perfectly okay to call someone "Senator Sheets" or "Senator KKK" based on what he did decades ago. Got it.

I think the WV populace likes having a Senior member of the Senate. Let's face it, Byrd is the only important person the state has. So they're willing to overlook the fact that he is an awful, bigoted, corrupt one.

Good to know you have such a low opinion of West Virginians.

Do you honestly think they know he's an unrepentant racist and just overlook it?

You're going with the "Supplemental Troll Analogy" strategy, while I go for the "Heavy Artillery" strategy.

Do you and Kuci jerk each other off as well in person, I wonder?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by vee4473
Boris, just wanted to get it clear in my head what you are saying.

is it ok to call someone a ****** if you use it in a tongue in cheek fashion...kinda like "it depends on what the meaning of the word ****** is?"

I never said it was okay to call someone "******" at all. That's not the argument. What Byrd said was not "okay," it was a stupid statement that he deserved to catch flak for. What I'm saying is that his intent was decidedly not racist.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Kuci, Jag - how many times have you said something is "gay" to mean it's "stupid?" How often do your friends use it?

I only use gay to describe something that quite clearly no straight guy would do

Does that make you and them homophobic bigots, yes or no?

Of course, I've never been a member of an organization that lynched gays, nor have I argued against gay rights issues such as gay marriage, so... I'll have to say no.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by GePap
Yet their use of the word is the same..ie. using ****** to mean a person with a specific type of behavior- why Chris Rock states not all blacks are ******s, and why Byrd could state that some whites are ******s.

One is used in a humorous context, the other is not. There's no analogy.