Man U Valued at $1.5 Billion -- American takes control

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by DanS
As long as you go in knowing what those differences are, what's the problem?

Put it this way most ManU fans are against this takeover and most Liverpool fan s are loving it!!

[DanS]

And when a $12 billion owner is out there willing to use his personal forture without regard for losses to win, you can't assume a massive debt and hope to keep pace.

The challenge of Abramovich would be there no matter the debt load, although of course it's true that the debt load may impact that competition to an unknown degree.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The challenge of Abramovich would be there no matter the debt load

It doesn't take a genius to relize that it is easier to compete with a $12 billion owner with no debt and no interest payments as opposed to a $500 million debt and substantial interest payments yearly.

It's a different system and Glazier has never run a sports team which was not in the controlled setting of a salary cap and shared profits.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by DanS


They are the same type of business simply because they are both sports teams. The business pieces of each sport (sponsorship, gate receipts and upkeep, TV revenue, merchandising, payroll and team management, community outreach, etc.) are similar and I think that the similarities are greater than the few differences.

That's like saying that running a business in a communist economy is the same as running a business in a capitalist economy, because they both involve the same aspects: salaries, stock managament, building maintenance, supply & demand, advertising, personnel training, etc. Of course, it's ridiculous to think that a successful businessman in a communist nation would just as easily be successful in a capitalist economy.

Sports in no different. The difference between American sports and European football is like day and night. As pointed out, American sport is aimed at making a profit, and at ensuring all owners make a profit. Football is basically an expensive hobby for millionairs, for owners it's more philanthropism than anything else. Chelsea's owner Abramovich has spent over 200 million pounds on players in the last 2 years (and still Chelsea failed to even reach the final in the Champions League) -- there's no way he's ever gonna turn a profit on that. And there's a huge amount of competition and often even hostility between owners and clubs, rather than collaboration as in the US. Not to mention the huge differences in just managing a club, as mentioned by others: promotions, relegations, player rights, player transfers, fan attitudes, scale of audiences (in the US one team represents an entire state, in Europe it usually only has fans in one city or even one neighbourhood -- Glazer is grossly overestimating the international potential of ManU), the huge importance of cups and esp. international tournaments, etc.

[DanS]

That's like saying that running a business in a communist economy is the same as running a business in a capitalist economy, because they both involve the same aspects: salaries, stock managament, building maintenance, supply & demand, advertising, personnel training, etc. Of course, it's ridiculous to think that a successful businessman in a communist nation would just as easily be successful in a capitalist economy.

The differences aren't as dramatic as you make them out to be for the Bucs and ManU. For instance, over the last decade or so, most teams in the NFL have changed the way they handle gate receipts and season tickets. Experience in those tests applies directly to ManU. Glazer has experience in managing sold-out gate for two stadiums of similar size to Old Trafford (the old one was larger by about 7,000, the new one smaller by about 2,000) and figuring out what works for his market. Indeed, comparable gate management experience probably is unavailable in European football except for a handful of teams.

The difference between American sports and European football is like day and night. As pointed out, American sport is aimed at making a profit, and at ensuring all owners make a profit. Football is basically an expensive hobby for millionairs, for owners it's more philanthropism than anything else.

That may be true for European football in general, but that's not quite the case with ManU. It is a plc that had mostly profit/loss investors. If you want to make the argument that a plc isn't a good way to run a football club in Europe -- especially against the likes of Abramovitch -- then that would seem to be another discussion entirely.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by DanS
The differences aren't as dramatic as you make them out to be for the Bucs and ManU. For instance, over the last decade or so, most teams in the NFL have changed the way they handle gate receipts and season tickets. Experience in those tests applies directly to ManU. Glazer has experience in managing sold-out gate for two stadiums of similar size to Old Trafford (the old one was larger by about 7,000, the new one smaller by about 2,000) and figuring out what works for his market. Indeed, comparable gate management experience probably is unavailable in European football except for a handful of teams.

That's just not true because European audiences are fundamentally different from American audiences. For Americans, sport is just another form of entertainment, an American Football match is a fun day out for the family. In Europe, football is more like religion, European fans live and (sometimes literally) die for their club.

Stadium size and things like that are utterly irrelevant for gate receipts in Europe. The single most important factor that determines visitor numbers and gate receipts in football is the amount of success a team has. The more successful you are, the more visitors you can support and the more you can charge for tickets. It's already becoming clear that Glazer will raise ticket prices for next season to pay off the cost of buying the ManU, while the club has had several bad seasons in a row now. ManU fans simply will not under any circumstance be willing to pay a higher price for their tickets unless they get a really strong guarantees that ManU will perform better next season. And in football, unlike in American sports, the only guarantee for short-term success is a big budget for player purchases and salaries, something which Glazer already announced there won't be.

Profit and success in the US sports are almost entirely independent factors, in football they are one and the same thing. Glazer's experiences in the closed-circuit system of the NFL have absolutely no bearing on the harsh competitive reality of football.

If Glazer will push through his plans of rasing ticket prices without significantly raising the player budget, ManU will be playing with a sub-par team in a half-empty stadium (at best) next season, which would inevitably lead them into the same downward spiral that other clubs such as Blackburn, Newcastle, Everton, QPR, etc went into in the 90s when they tried to maximize profits at the expense of success.

[Drake Tungsten]

For Americans, sport is just another form of entertainment, an American Football match is a fun day out for the family.

Bollocks...

[DerSchwarzfalke]

Seconding that bollocks. You should have seen me after the Yankees lost Game 7 this year ...

[Lawrence of Arabia]

you shoulda seen ME after the Yankees lost Game 7 this year . . ..

[Lawrence of Arabia]

and yeah, the US system is a COMMUNIST system with PROFIT SHARING and CAPS on SPENDING. how well are the Russians doing after switching from a communist to a capitalist system.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
and yeah, the US system is a COMMUNIST system with PROFIT SHARING and CAPS on SPENDING. how well are the Russians doing after switching from a communist to a capitalist system.

Libbies arguing in favour of communism

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by JohnT
Dan, you're forgetting that the devil is in the details.

Was that a deliberate pun?

ManU being the Red Devils 'n' all..

[Az]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Libbies arguing in favour of communism

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Libbies arguing in favour of communism

i meant that it takes time for people to learn the new system, because in a communist system, the best skill to have is one that lets you get around the system and beat the government (blackmarketteers, bribes to high officials, etc) a capitalist system has a more constructive set a skills needed to be succesful.

[child of Thor]

Well ManU does have one of the biggest non local fan bases in world football - maybe the plan is to target and expand that market over the home market?

Also i think the whole agressive approach is what upsets the ManU fans most, to them he's a 'flash yank' with all the money but no idea of what ManU really is about(this may not be true, but i think its how it seems to the majority of fans/onlookers).

This in itself may be a PR disaster with no fix?