Ronald Reagan

[MrFun]

As long as there are still people who STILL don't get it, it bears repeating when someone asks what were some negative consequences of Reagan's presidency.

[Shi Huangdi]

Reagan did alot of good thing, his hard-line foreign policy was very important for cracking the communists. Particularly his financing of the Afghani rebels against the Soviets helped to bankrupt the USSR.

There were alot of problems with him though, such as his outrageous deficits.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Particularly his financing of the Afghani rebels against the Soviets helped to bankrupt the USSR.

And trained and created the movement with which we are at war today, radical Islam. The Soviets never blew our **** up.

[Shi Huangdi]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


And trained and created the movement with which we are at war today, radical Islam. The Soviets never blew our **** up.

That was due to later mismanagement of the Afghani conflict. After getting the Soviets out we basically ignored the Afghanis and didn't do anything about Pakistan's support for the most militant Islamic warlords. With our neglect of Afghanistan, there was ripe ground for the Taliban to come in.

[Shi Huangdi]

As far as allying ourselves with Dictatorships, the Soviets also allied itself with a number of dictatorships as well. If we had decided to be morally pure and refuse to ally with anyone who isn't a democracy, those dictatorship would have naturally looked to the Soviets for support, and it would have just increased the Soviet Sphere of influence and made the Soviets more powerful.

[MrFun]

Would mismanagement include United States training Osama Bin Laden?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
That was due to later mismanagement of the Afghani conflict.

Not just that. In countr after counter across the Islamic world, both the United States and countries like Israel, actively promoted Islamic "fascists" as a counter to radical nationalists and socialists. Hamas and Islamic Jihad were actually funded by the State of Israel in the 1970s ( I don't know when that sponsorship ended). We kept the Ayatollah on our payroll and helped him spread his message, so that when the Iranian revolution occured, he had a ready base in Iran and was able to hijack the revolution. We jumped outta the frying pan into the fire.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MrFun
Would mismanagement include United States training Osama Bin Laden?

We didn't train him specifically, but we did train many of his followers and co-thinkers.

[Shi Huangdi]

"Hamas and Islamic Jihad were actually funded by the State of Israel in the 1970s ( I don't know when that sponsorship ended). We kept the Ayatollah on our payroll and helped him spread his message, so that when the Iranian revolution occured, he had a ready base in Iran and was able to hijack the revolution."

Source?

[MrFun]

I thought I recalled learning that there ties between American intelligence agents and Osama Bin Laden.




I guess I was mistakened.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
"Hamas and Islamic Jihad were actually funded by the State of Israel in the 1970s ( I don't know when that sponsorship ended). We kept the Ayatollah on our payroll and helped him spread his message, so that when the Iranian revolution occured, he had a ready base in Iran and was able to hijack the revolution."

Source?

Dude, even the Israelis don't deny this. They promoted them as a way of trying to break the PLO's politcal power in the OTs.

The political/charitable arm of Hamas was officially registered and recognized within Israel at this time: indeed Israel supported and encouraged Hamas' early growth in an effort to undermine the secular Fatah movement of Yasser Arafat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MrFun
I thought I recalled learning that there ties between American intelligence agents and Osama Bin Laden.

Bin Laden helped organize funds and supplies for the mujahadeen, whom we were also funding and supplying and training. It's an easy mistake to make. The CIA likely was friendly with him, since he was giving their proxies aid.

By 1984 he had established an organization named Maktab al-Khadamat (MAK) (Office of Order in English), which funneled money, arms and Muslim fighters from around the world into the Afghan war.

MAK was supported by the governments of Pakistan, the United States[3] (http://www.msnbc.com/news/190144.asp?cp1=1#BODY) and Saudi Arabia. The three countries channelled their supplies through Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_laden

[MrFun]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

The CIA likely was friendly with him, since he was giving their proxies aid.

ah ha

[Shi Huangdi]

The Wikipedia article has it's neutrality disputed, and from the talk page:

There appear to be irregularities, can somebody clear them up? In the intro it states that it was founded in late 1987 as an outgrowth of the Muslim Brotherhood, but later it states under history that it was funded in the 1970's and 1980's by Saudi Arabia and Syria.--Omar 11:37, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

and this "Many experts agree that while Israel never supported Hamas directly"...UPI floated a story that "beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years"[1] (http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=...2-051845-8272r)...but others contend this is one of those Fantasias for Wisner's Wurlitzer.[2] (http://emperor.vwh.net/letters/cia.htm) Maybe elaboration is needed there... Kwantus 17:59, 2004 Nov 15 (UTC)

If that is correct, Israel certainly made a mistake in funding Hamas.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Israel also put Arafat in charge of Palestine, btw.