Announcement

**reds4ever** · May 10, 2005, 20:51

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
250 pages from an insider who participated in these events.

Nancy or Margaret?

**Ned** · May 10, 2005, 20:56

Actually, Lawrence, Carter, to his credit, began the support of the Mujahideen in Afghanistan.

**Verto** · May 10, 2005, 20:56

Reagan is bashed for all sorts of things, but I still consider him one of my faves.

**Imran Siddiqui** · May 10, 2005, 20:57

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
so he was democratically elected.

as for the rumours that it was noriega who killed him, John Perkins, an inside man who worked for Chas T MAIN in the 70s and 80s, and who knew how things worked in those times between US international investors, the CIA, and the pentagon, alleges in his book that it was the CIA would had both presidents killed off. he would know more then anyone.

Ah yes "democratically elected". Like Castro and other dictatorial strongmen are, right? Royo was a figurehead President who was a follower of Torrijos. Torrijos, however, stayed head of the National Guard, which held the power in the country. Torrijos was also responsible for numerous human rights violations, so he wasn't some good guy as you are trying to portray him.

And I'd trust Noriega's associate over some guy who was not involved saying "look at me!"

**chequita guevara** · May 10, 2005, 20:58

Originally posted by Pekka
OK OK.. so south american part of his presidency is at least troublesome.

Next?

The Latin American part of his policy is why I went from being a Reagan supporting Republican to a communist.

**Verto** · May 10, 2005, 21:01

FDR's Eastern Europe policy is why I hate cripples.

**Ned** · May 10, 2005, 21:02

Did anyone mention that Reagan did not buy the eco-freaks agenda?

Did anyone mention that he ended price controls on oil, whereupon oil supplies, which had been scarce, suddenly gushed forth, lowering prices.

Did anyone mention getting inflation under control?

Did anyone mention the sustained boom launched by Reagan. The stock market took off from the 700's, where it had remained for two decades, and didn't stop until it reached 10,000.

Did anyone mention reason for the sustained boom were his tax cuts?

He also stood his ground against union extremism. When air controllers went on strike in violation of the law, he replaced them.

But his greatest crime was to put the Pershing missile into Europe, as requested by NATO to counter the USSR's deployment of theater weapons, but defied by massive protests by European commies who warned of nuclear war, but whose real intention was to weaken Europe an detach it from America.

**chequita guevara** · May 10, 2005, 21:03

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Ah yes "democratically elected". Like Castro and other dictatorial strongmen are, right? Royo was a figurehead President who was a follower of Torrijos. Torrijos, however, stayed head of the National Guard, which held the power in the country. Torrijos was also responsible for numerous human rights violations, so he wasn't some good guy as you are trying to portray him.

Imran is correct, Torfijos was a strongman. Nor do I believe that Maurice Bishop was elected in Grenada, but regardless of whether or not he was, he was ousted and murdered by a coup from the pro-Soviet elements in the New Jewel movement, so what followed Bishop cannot be considered a democracy.

Nonetheless, Reagan's presidency was a nightmare for the people of Latin America. It was one long decade of torture and brutality and mass murder.

**Imran Siddiqui** · May 10, 2005, 21:07

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Imran is correct, Torfijos was a strongman. Nor do I believe that Maurice Bishop was elected in Grenada, but regardless of whether or not he was, he was ousted and murdered by a coup from the pro-Soviet elements in the New Jewel movement, so what followed Bishop cannot be considered a democracy.

Nonetheless, Reagan's presidency was a nightmare for the people of Latin America. It was one long decade of torture and brutality and mass murder.

To be clear... I don't think that the US was a saint to Latin America. Far from it.. though in the case of Panama, it wasn't overthrowing a democracy with a pro US dictator. This wasn't Chile.

**chequita guevara** · May 10, 2005, 21:07

Originally posted by Ned
Did anyone mention that Reagan did not buy the eco-freaks agenda?

And we're worse today for it.

Did anyone mention that he ended price controls on oil, whereupon oil supplies, which had been scarce, suddenly gushed forth, lowering prices.

Oil supplies and prices were countroled by OPEC and through them by the Saudis. Reagan had nothing to do with oil prices coming down.

Did anyone mention getting inflation under control?

He did do that, at great cost to the American income.

Did anyone mention the sustained boom launched by Reagan.

What boom, sustained or not?

The stock market took off from the 700's, where it had remained for two decades, and didn't stop until it reached 10,000.

For all the good it's done the average American.

Did anyone mention reason for the sustained boom were his tax cuts?

If they had they'd be lying. The economy didn't recover until Reagan and the Congressional Democrats raised taxes.

He also stood his ground against union extremism. When air controllers went on strike in violation of the law, he replaced them.

The Fed's refused to follow the contract, leaving the air traffic controllers no alternative. If they can't strike, they're slaves. The end result was the collapse of unionism in the U.S. It still has not recovered, and neither has the average income. American families now need two wage earners in order to make more money than their father did.

**chequita guevara** · May 10, 2005, 21:09

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

To be clear... I don't think that the US was a saint to Latin America. Far from it.. though in the case of Panama, it wasn't overthrowing a democracy with a pro US dictator. This wasn't Chile.

True dat. They overthrew one tepidly pro-U.S. but rhetorically nationalistic dictator with a massively pro-U.S., corrupt, drug-money-laudering banker. But that was Bush senior, not Reagan, so why are we even discussing it?

**Whoha** · May 10, 2005, 23:14

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
tried to start a nuclear war

The event where we moved pershings into Europe to counter soviet medium range weapons?

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
-slap tariffs on Korea and Bangladesh over textiles, even though he was a free trader

dont forget about the electronics,semi-conductors,motorcycles, and automotive tariffs.

**MrFun** · May 10, 2005, 23:19

Re: Ronald Reagan

Originally posted by Pekka

So far, I don't see anything evil in here. So what gives?
-

For starters:

1) was callously neglectful in confronting the early AIDS crisis

2) supported cruel, inhumane dictatorships in Latin American countries

Those are the two most promiment ones that immediately come to mind.

**Verto** · May 10, 2005, 23:20

Would you get off your AIDS soapbox?

**Whoha** · May 10, 2005, 23:24

Re: Re: Ronald Reagan

Originally posted by MrFun
1) was callously neglectful in confronting the early AIDS crisis
Those are the two most promiment ones that immediately come to mind.

You are absolutely right, he should have instituted a quaruntine, that would have saved a lot of lives.

Announcement

Ronald Reagan

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment