War between the western allies and the Sovs in '45. Who wins?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Lancer
Okally dokally Che. So the Sov armies drive to all the way to Spain? The only real card they held was the T34... Still, who knows?

That's not the only card they held. France, Italy, and Greece would have fought for the Soviets, Britain would have taken itself out of the war, and masive strikes in the U.S. would have killed the war effort.

Allied air support wasn't as effective as claimed, having little effect on the Nazi war effort, the U.S. would still have a war in the Pacific, as Japan would refuse to surrender.

You also forget about the Il-2, one of the best planes in the war.

our_man,Poland and Czechoslovakian partisans didn't exist against the Nazis, so they can be discounted against the Soviets. On the other hand, Communist partisans liberated Greece and Northern Italy and were a problem for the Nazis in France.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Lancer
Actually, presented with an ultimatum, Stalin must have retreated.

Of course, you forget that the West didn't want the responsibility of rebuilding Eastern Europe. They thought they were handing the Soviets a poison pill. Make the Soviets, who need to rebuild their own country, rebuild Eastern Europe.

[our_man]

Poland and Czechoslovakian partisans didn't exist against the Nazis, so they can be discounted against the Soviets.

The Warsaw uprisings? The assassination of Heydrich?

With Allied help, these national liberation movements could bleed the Soviets just as easily, perhaps moreso, than communist sypmathisers in Western Europe.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by our_man
The Warsaw uprisings?

Led by Communists! They gonna attack their allies?

The assassination of Heydrich?

An assassination, wow that will stop an army of millions.

Most of the liberation movements against the Fascsists were led, both in Europe and Asia, by the Communists. There were some non-communist elements, but they were pretty much non-factors. That's just history.

The nationalists had been either rubbed out by the Nazis or discreditted by collaborating with the Nazis. Either way, they weren't a serious threat, especially if the Allies launched an offensive, rather than the Soviets.

[our_man]

Led by Communists! They gonna attack their allies?

OK, I didn't know this, but I have trouble believing it for the following reason: during the uprising, the USSR could have advanced to save the Poles instead of allowing them to be crushed by the Nazis. If they were really Allies, why didn't the Russian army attack Warsaw to help the partisans during the uprising? I just don't buy this.

[Lancer]

"Of course, you forget that the West didn't want the responsibility of rebuilding Eastern Europe. They thought they were handing the Soviets a poison pill. Make the Soviets, who need to rebuild their own country, rebuild Eastern Europe."

The Sovs never rebuilt eastern europe. I took a train through the Czech Republic in '93 or '94 and there were still many signs of WW2. Demolished buildings, wreckage...and this was after a few years of democracy with the rest of europe investing like crazy. The train I was on flew out of Switzerland, flew through Germany and tip toed through the Czech republic on rail lines with war damage still evident.

Communism.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Any war would have been over quite quickly with the Soviets in Western Europe and Greece and the U.S. with Spain and Portugal its only toe holds.

Nonsense.

The Russians were exhausted in 45. The main risk for the allies was mutiny by their own troops.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


France, Italy, and Greece would have fought for the Soviets, Britain would have taken itself out of the war, and masive strikes in the U.S. would have killed the war effort.

God you sprout some bullsh*t sometime

Allied air support wasn't as effective as claimed, having little effect on the Nazi war effort, the U.S. would still have a war in the Pacific, as Japan would refuse to surrender.

What a mindreader.

You also forget about the Il-2, one of the best planes in the war.

Those who agree with you could meet in a phone booth. History and computer games are not the same thing Che.

our_man,Poland and Czechoslovakian partisans didn't exist against the Nazis, so they can be discounted against the Soviets. On the other hand, Communist partisans liberated Greece and Northern Italy and were a problem for the Nazis in France.

Do you live in some kind of leftwing fantasy world?

[Vesayen]

Is this thread a joke? Europe was in crappy shape but the USSR was in *FAR* worse shape....... the U.S. alone could of bombed them into submission.


I'm surprised no one mentioned this.

WE HAD NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

The soviets were scared ****less after we nuked the Japanese, they were afraid they might of been next.

We only needed to build more nukes.

[Alexander's Horse]

yeah add one nuke and its all over

[Lancer]

You guys need to read the first post in the thread. Nukes are out for discussion purposes. Add nukes and there isn't anything to BS about and we all just schrivel up and blow away.

[Whoha]

The Russians did originally think the Nazis were liberators, I'd imagine the Allies would have been able to make that label stick, Which is what it would have boiled down to in a war with the Soviet Union that we intended to win. Its ****ing cold up there.

[JohnT]

What percentage of Soviet military supplies came from the US in 1945? Quick Googling came up with the following (unsubstantiated!) list:

Here's some statistics on Lend-Lease (LL) to the USSR.

Over 400,000 trucks, more than half of which were medium and heavy trucks. 60% of the Soviet wheeled vehicles in 1945 were Lend-Lease trucks.
22,800 armored vehicles (tanks, half tracks, etc.), including more than 12,000 tanks. 40% of these arrived in 1941 when the USSR most needed them.
11,000 freight cars and 540,000 tons of rail
-14,798 aircraft
-4,111 20mm and 40mm AA guns
-434,000 trucks
-28,000 jeeps
-5,500 artillery tractors
-330,000 field telephones
-2,670,000 tons of petroleum products including 476,000 tons of aviation fuel
-5,500,000 pairs of boots
-25,000,000 yards of uniform cloth
-1,045 locomotives
-8,260 wagons
-1,200,000 tons of steel
-26,000 machine-tools

Soviet explosive production - 600,000 tons
explosives via LL - 317,000 tons

Soviet toluene (key ingredient in TNT) production - 116,000 tons
Toluene via LL - 103,000 tons

http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/478-530.asp

Here's a far more detailed list: http://www.geocities.com/mark_willey/lend.html

Any consideration of this question must take into account that the Soviet military would've lost it's biggest arms manufacturer - the United States!

[BeBMan]

Finland wins, no question.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Lancer
You guys need to read the first post in the thread. Nukes are out for discussion purposes. Add nukes and there isn't anything to BS about and we all just schrivel up and blow away.

.....no, because A. the nukes we had at the time were *FAR* weaker then the ones we had today...... I doubt we could of irradiated the planet if we wanted to.

B. Russians did not have them.