War between the western allies and the Sovs in '45. Who wins?

[Myrddin]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
but then with P-51s and P-48s ruling the skies they wouldn't have had to face amny of them.

Except that they got shot down by Migs and Yaks over Berlin

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Myrddin
Except that they got shot down by Migs and Yaks over Berlin

They wouldn't be a factor in '45.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
I'm not sure that the people of Britain, France, and Italy were really as gung -ho Bolshevik as some people here think.

They weren't - the partisans had varying degrees of communist influence. They came to dominate in some areas because they already had an underground cell structure before the war. After the war their influnece waned rapidly in most countries, the exceptions being places like Northern Italy and Yugoslavia.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Well, Lancer's premise is that the U.S. attacks the U.S.S.R.

Was it?

[chequita guevara]

No, I guess not. He was talking about an ultimatim to deman the USSR leave Eastern Europe though, which implies an U.S. attack.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Sandman
It would take the Soviets years to push the allies to the shore. Forcing them out of Italy would be nigh impossible, in particular.

Except that they have much more men, and much better tanks.

[Alexander's Horse]

They had lots of men and tanks but the Western allies had awesome firepower, including tank busting aircraft and strageic bombers to disrupt supply lines, to make up for numbers on the ground.

Its also relevant that in 45 US production was still increasing, the Sherman for example was being replaced by the m48 (?) and some other heavy makes which the allies could produce in large numbers. The allies also had very large reserves of manpower, much larger than the Russians, which could have been supplemented by battlehardened former Axis troops, many of whom fully expected to take part in a war on the allied side to drive the Ruskies out of Central Europe. Until the Warsaw organised, the Sovs only had their own much depleted manpower resources to draw upon, and their minor allies were unreliable.

[Lancer]

M 26 Pershing

http://www.battletanks.com/m26_pershing.htm

Just happened to have this.

[Alexander's Horse]

ya the Pershing was one, upgunned Shermans as well

[Lancer]

Allied airpower and manpower win out over Russian armor.

However I imagine that Stalin would have known this and pulled out of eastern europe to avoid being tossed out.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Summary of debate, please?

You and Che and your commie buddies lost

[Lancer]

Here ya go AH

http://www.battletanks.com/m4a3_sherman.htm

Shows the 76 mm long gun (high velocity)

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Lancer
However I imagine that Stalin would have known this and pulled out of eastern europe to avoid being tossed out.

That is the most likely outcome - the Sovs worked very hard to present an image of invincibility and to downplay their horrific losses in the war, which they claimed to have absorbed when the reality was the Soviet army just staggered over the line as the victor in 1945. The country was in a state of exhaustion and had suffered terrible damage which took decades to overcome. This only became clear to the Western allies in the early 1960's when satellite imagery became available.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Lancer
Here ya go AH

http://www.battletanks.com/m4a3_sherman.htm

Shows the 76 mm long gun (high velocity)

There were later variants which had a bigger gun than the 76mm iircc, and other tanks with up to 120mm guns.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
They had lots of men and tanks but the Western allies had awesome firepower, including tank busting aircraft and strageic bombers to disrupt supply lines, to make up for numbers on the ground.

The Western allies were only facting at most 1/10 of Nazi Germany's military might, the rest was on the Eastern Front.

I could not see such a vast disparity could be overcome, particularly when the Soviets had far superior armour and their airforce wasn't exactly a pushover.