European Attitudes to American Soccer

[Locutus]

Originally posted by DanS
There are lots of ways for the US to make a splash in international soccer. In the end, what works for the US might look different than what works in other countries. The US might have a slightly older team playing than others.

It doesn't work that way. It's well known that kids are most receptible to learning new things when they're young. If you have to teach elementary things like handling the ball, tackling, marking, or team tactics to nineteen-year-olds, they will only pick up a fraction of what nine-year-olds would pick up. Someone can be the most talented player in the world, but without the right education at the right time, they'll never make the most of that talent.

So you wouldn't get a older teams, you would get less capable teams (even if the talent is there).

That said, as Imran pointed out, we now have a national academy to cherry pick and train the biggest talents. The system will probably evolve to be multi-pronged like our other sports.

Like Imran said, that doesn't begin to compare. For one thing the numbers: how many kids attend that academy? A few hundred on a population of 300 million? I'd guestimate that the Dutch youth academies accomodate about 20,000 youth, on a population of 16 million. And of course the US lacks the extensive tiered network of amateur teams to sifts out talent, which is at least as important. These academies don't usually draft their kids from playgrounds or school competitions, they rely on that same network to pre-select the most talented players, and recruit from the highest level youth competitions.

For example, some people go to junior highs and high schools known for their basketball. Some don't. Some go to college and play ball. Some are drafted into the NBA right out of high school. Some are drafted in the middle of college. Some are drafted after graduation. Talent and skill level are evaluated at all places.

As I more or less said already, if you recruit players for a high-quality education after their 10-12th birthday you're already too late, you missed a key phase in their development. You can still pick them up and they may still do fine, but they'll never live up to their full potential. Drafting players from junior high or later is just too damn late. For basketball, but especially for football where the rest of the world already recruits earlier. As long as the US doesn't follow suit, they'll never have a chance of catching up...

[DanS]

There's a lot of ways to teach kids at that stage outside of an academy. You're being way too narrowminded about this. Your system works for the Netherlands. It has a lot of tradition. That's cool.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

no i agree with locutus. as someone who went through the system, or lack of, there is no support whatesoever. there is no one scouting, looking for good young players, no way to progress, no harvesting of talent, until college, which is way too late.

[DanS]

I never said what we have now is a proper way of going about it.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

and the only system that would work is what they have in europe. lots of academies, which team both soccer and academics.

[DanS]

Again, that's incredibly narrow-minded. It works for them.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

again, thats the only way to do it.

[Locutus]

It's not a matter of academies or no academies, other systems could be perfectly viable as well. But if talented players don't start getting high-quality education before ~junior high (but the sooner the better), they'll never be able to catch up with equally talented players that do get that kind of education.

[DanS]

It's not a matter of academies or no academies, other systems could be perfectly viable as well.

OK, then we agree.

I have no problem with agreeing that an early proper education is of great importance. On the other hand, it seems more likely that in the US, you would have to raise the education level for all soccer players in that age group in order to teach the talented people well. That would be a much more ambitious project than a couple dozen academies, I admit.

[Locutus]

Well, if you also agree that currently the US is utterly lacking any kind of remotely functional system and that only recruiting players in college or high school is inherently flawed...

Edit: you DanS'ed me, I guess we do agree then

[DanS]

In actuality, players are recruited multiple times in the US (junior high, high school, college, pro draft) whereas they might only be recruited once in Europe. I see no problem with adding another level of recruitment at pee-wee level.

But in the end, we will likely have older soccer players than what is normal, even if you get to them young, because they end up passing through most of those steps and will be set on the path to graduate college, not on the path to graduate high school at 14 like Freddy Adu.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by DanS
In actuality, players are recruited multiple times in the US (junior high, high school, college, pro draft) whereas they might only be recruited once in Europe. I see no problem with adding another level of recruitment at pee-wee level.

They are only being recruited into a 3-4 year window in junior high, high school, college, by recruiters/coaches who, in a lot of cases, are just the guy in the area that likes soccer. They don't have official training in it as those from clubs do.

There is a reason that the academy model has swept the world on how to get soccer players. You allow trained, professional recruiters to pick up players and train them in dedicated facilities where they learn and play soccer.

The high school, college system doesn't work well in training because the people aren't trained in proper coaching and development. What you need is mass recruitment into club led or UNMNT led programs.

Look at what has happened with Adu. His talent was recognized and he quickly was pulled out of school (and is now home schooled), while he focused on soccer training. Having Adu go through the high school and then college path before getting to the MLS would have wasted his immense talent. But even so... a key stage of development was missed, as Locutus put it.

[DanS]

In the US, you would have to do it differently. Very few people are going to go to an academy, no matter how successful that model is for the Europeans and others. Well, you may be able to fill up a half dozen academies or whatever.

Perhaps it would make more sense in the US to send well trained and reasonably-paid coaches out to coach in the communities.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by DanS
In the US, you would have to do it differently. Very few people are going to go to an academy, no matter how successful that model is for the Europeans and others.

Which is a reason why the US will not be dominating. In Brazil they get kids when they are insanely young! Even younger than they do in Europe. That's why Brazil's players are so skilled. They were able to learn what it takes when they were at an age where the teaching would sink in the best.

In order to dominate, you have to go the extra mile. It's ok that we won't, but that means we won't dominate in soccer. That simple.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by DanS
In actuality, players are recruited multiple times in the US (junior high, high school, college, pro draft) whereas they might only be recruited once in Europe. I see no problem with adding another level of recruitment at pee-wee level.

No, players can be recruited at any point in their career in Europe.

Like I said, players are usually not recruited from playgrounds or school teams (where talents are only held back by a lack of real competition), but mostly join the elaborate tiered system of amateur clubs at the age of 4-6, where they're put in teams (and competitions) of players with the same age and level of skill. The youth academies will recruits from the best of these youth teams, usually when players are between 8-14 years old. The remaining players stay with their amateur teams and eventually get promoted to the 'adult' teams.

They can then still be picked up by pro clubs at any point, but if they're older than 15, they'll usually skip the academy and join the youth teams of the pro teams directly. If they're older than 17 and have enough talent, they'll soon advance to the highest regions of the 'adult' amateur league, which is also scouted extensively. Players recruited from there directly join the first or second team of a pro club, they skip the youth department altogether. It's entirely possible for players to only be picked up when they're 28 or so (especially at the bottom of the pro league this is not uncommon), but normally if they have talent, they should already have been noticed by scouts long before that.

Also, if anyone ever 'drops out' of an academy, they flow right back into the amateur leagues, where they if prove themselves they have a chance to be picked up a second time, either by an academy or directly by a club.