All Hail the Glorious People's Revolution in Vietnam!

[Sandman]

How exactly was Reagan's talking tough responsible for declining Soviet life expectancy? Or Chernobyl?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by BlackCat
BS - I was certainly alive in 83-84 and people wasn't scared - quite opposite - people was optimistic.

The Doomsday Clock at 1984.

Just FYI.

[Ned]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Once the United States invaded Vietnam, the North Vietnamese had every right to defend the people of Vietnam from imperialist aggression. If the U.S. hadn't invaded, the Viet Cong would have disposed of the puppet government by the end of the decade. In 1962, they were almost ready to declare a provisional government, but U.S. "advisors" were able to help keep the Southern dictatorship going a little longer.

Ho used the same tactics that the commies used in Korea. He began the fight using guerillas. Later, if necessary, he would use conventional forces. This is what happened, but the US delayed the final conventional assault for more than a decade.

Now, as we all know, the reason for the 7 year window from Ho taking the North and the beginning of his aggression South was his need to install communism in the North and to build up his resources. There was a similar 6-7 year delay from Tet to the final offensive. Tet was such a devastating defeat that it took all that time to build up again.

What I will agree with is that the introduction of US forces into the South threatened success and forced Ho to use his conventional forces sooner than he had planned.

Now, most of this still does not answer the question as to why, in 1961, Ho had a right to wage aggressive war against the South for the purpose of conquest and annexation.

[Agathon]

How exactly was Reagan's talking tough responsible for declining Soviet life expectancy? Or Chernobyl?

It wasn't. This is the neoconservative theory. It's at odds with the facts since Reagan became much more conciliatory with the USSR in his second term. Wanting to deflect attention from Iran-Contra probably had something to do with it, as did the unpopularity of his previous militarism.

I don't think the right or the left really understand Reagan. That's one reason he managed to get elected. He certainly was nowhere near the extremist that Bush was.

And Bush sr was a competent President and not a vote whore. He made a few mistakes and I don't like his politics, but no-one can accuse him of being incompetent like the present bunch (whom I hear he detests).

[Ned]

Agathon, could the fact that the USSR "elected" Gorby in 84-5? have anything to do with the better atmosphere? Gorby's mission was appeasement of Reagan, among other things.

[chequita guevara]

Ned, please do try to come back to reality.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Agathon

BS - I was certainly alive in 83-84 and people wasn't scared - quite opposite - people was optimistic.

OK. Let's change that to intelligent people who knew what was going on...

Seriously, did you live in a hole? That was the time that there were umpteen million specials on the coming nuclear holocaust; the scare pic The Day After and a general worry that Reagan's militarism combined with the intractability of the post-Brezhnev Soviet leaders was going to end in a holocaust. For a couple of years it was all scaremongering all the time.

These were the heydays of the anti-nuclear movement, and for good reason.

Actually I was alive during both eras, and the way people felt in 1983 was nothing compared to the panic during the Cuban Missle Crisis. I remember having daily air raid drills, and having to take papers telling the school what to do with me in the event of an attack to my parents for them to fill out. My 5th grade teacher had a nervous breakdown.

[chequita guevara]

You guys may have had it worse, but that doesn't mean the first half the 80s weren't a lot scarier than the 70s in general. I didn't think we were going to live to see graduation.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
You guys may have had it worse, but that doesn't mean the first half the 80s weren't a lot scarier than the 70s in general. I didn't think we were going to live to see graduation.

What were we going to go to war over? I don't think there was anything happening in the International arena that would have been likely to have triggered a nuclear war. There were numerous conflicts in minor nations, but by the 1980s it was pretty well established that neither state ws going to initiate a major conflict over a bush war going sour. Reagan's talk about MAD was nothing but a reriteration of a policy widely known for a long time. You were just too young to have heard it uttered in a different form by President Eisenhower.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
What were we going to go to war over?

A President who said that we could win a nuclear war, joked about attacking the USSR, etc. Unlike your generation, we thought our side would start the war. Probably over something stupid.

[Patroklos]

Unlike your generation, we thought our side would start the war.

An example of why your generation has been written off.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Patroklos
An example of why your generation has been written off.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Ned, please do try to come back to reality.

No, in this case he's sort-of right. The Soviets were getting whipped on the rhetoric wars and they needed someone to not look so bad. Gorbachev was the obvious choice, even though his politics weren't all that appealing to the party leaders. Though I don't know if I'd say Gorbachev was picked to appease Reagan, he was picked to be able to match Reagan... but his personality and politics allowed the two to become great friends.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Patroklos
An example of why your generation has been written off.

What a witty and inciteful comment.

[Imran Siddiqui]

as did the unpopularity of his previous militarism.

You did notice his winning margin in the 1984 election, right? Mondale won 1 (or 2) state, IIRC.