All Hail the Glorious People's Revolution in Vietnam!

[Ted Striker]

What is interesting is that the US is now Vietnam's biggest trading partner.

[Agathon]

Agathon, the pressure forced Gorbachev to seek changes, including arms reduction. Reagan responded to an extent. But still, he kept the pressure on his entire administration.

It had nothing to do with Reagan!!!! The problems of the Soviet Union antedated Reagan's administration.

More to the point, the Soviet Union didn't collapse until after Reagan, and most people were surprised.

Trying to say that Reagan slew the Soviet Union is revisionist history and does him a disservice.

[Imran Siddiqui]

It had nothing to do with Reagan!!!!

Ah the parroting of the left's dismissal of Reagan... they hope if they say it enough, it'll be true

It's funny, back in the 70s, they were talking about the Soviet strength... only to change their tune as the 80s went on, as Reagan pushed and pushed and then engaged in nuclear arms agreements with Gorby, but all the while not letting up.

Ask the Russians who they thought won the Cold War .

[BlackCat]

Actually Agathon has a point - the Soviet Unions problems can be dated back to approx 1920.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And North Korea's can date back to the late 1940s, but they are still keeping their stranglehold on power .

It's like saying the problems with South Africa were in place for decades and the sanctions in the 80s had absolutely nothing to do with ending apartheid. It seriously diminishes the effects the sanctions actually had.

It's similar to the lefties and Reagan. They want to diminish his effect on the collapse of the Soviet Union. They'd rather say it was a failed experiment than give the right wing its due .

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
Che, even if everything you say about the legitimacy of the Republic of Vietnam is true, what right did this give North Vietnam, with the material support of the USSR, to wage aggressive war to conquer it?

Once the United States invaded Vietnam, the North Vietnamese had every right to defend the people of Vietnam from imperialist aggression. If the U.S. hadn't invaded, the Viet Cong would have disposed of the puppet government by the end of the decade. In 1962, they were almost ready to declare a provisional government, but U.S. "advisors" were able to help keep the Southern dictatorship going a little longer.

[Agathon]

Ah the parroting of the left's dismissal of Reagan... they hope if they say it enough, it'll be true

Reagan followed policies that were put in place by Truman. It's not a dismissal of Reagan, just an acknowledgement of the facts. Reagan moved away from his confrontational stance in his second term and, with Gorbachev, did more than anyone to assure that the cold war ended peacefully when it did end. That is where he deserves credit, and I think that the left has been churlish in not granting it.

The neoconservative view of Reagan is a fabrication for political purposes. In many ways he wasn't that different from Bush Sr who was probably the last good president the US ever had.

You don't need to tell me this, I lived through it. I wasn't in diapers at the time.

[Agathon]

Once the United States invaded Vietnam, the North Vietnamese had every right to defend the people of Vietnam from imperialist aggression. If the U.S. hadn't invaded, the Viet Cong would have disposed of the puppet government by the end of the decade. In 1962, they were almost ready to declare a provisional government, but U.S. "advisors" were able to help keep the Southern dictatorship going a little longer.

The Green Berets is on telly in a few minutes. I might watch it just to gloat.

[Agathon]

And Imran, given that you weren't alive in 83-84 I doubt you remember just how ****-scared people were at the time. Older people have told me that it was the worst since the Cuban Missile Crisis.

The thaw between the USSR and the USA in the next few years was a welcome relief to everyone.

[BlackCat]

BS - I was certainly alive in 83-84 and people wasn't scared - quite opposite - people was optimistic.

[Agathon]

BS - I was certainly alive in 83-84 and people wasn't scared - quite opposite - people was optimistic.

OK. Let's change that to intelligent people who knew what was going on...

Seriously, did you live in a hole? That was the time that there were umpteen million specials on the coming nuclear holocaust; the scare pic The Day After and a general worry that Reagan's militarism combined with the intractability of the post-Brezhnev Soviet leaders was going to end in a holocaust. For a couple of years it was all scaremongering all the time.

These were the heydays of the anti-nuclear movement, and for good reason.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Agathon

BS - I was certainly alive in 83-84 and people wasn't scared - quite opposite - people was optimistic.

OK. Let's change that to intelligent people who knew what was going on...

Seriously, did you live in a hole? That was the time that there were umpteen million specials on the coming nuclear holocaust; the scare pic The Day After and a general worry that Reagan's militarism combined with the intractability of the post-Brezhnev Soviet leaders was going to end in a holocaust. For a couple of years it was all scaremongering all the time.

These were the heydays of the anti-nuclear movement, and for good reason.

Actually, my main concern was the buildup of nuclear weapons in eastern eourope - you know those deployed by soviet.

[Ted Striker]

My major concern was seeing if I could get the high score on Joust!

[Ted Striker]

Dammit, I was doing an image search for "zany" screenshots of Joust, when I found that it is now available ONLINE as a Shockwave version.

My life is now over.

[Agathon]

Actually, my main concern was the buildup of nuclear weapons in eastern eourope - you know those deployed by soviet.

No-one, least of all me, said it was all Reagan's fault. But you remember the times.