The iPod is dead. Long live the iPod.

[Asher]

Maybe things are different over there, but Camera phones are wildly successful here, while I don't know of anyone who cares about a low-battery life kludgey-interface MP3 player on their cellphone.

[Q Classic]

Honestly, I don't mind having a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none device like the Samsung miniket.

If it delivers "good enough" performance for users, such as myself, for its many things, it's fine--and then, if I want to have something better, I'll invest in a device that does it well.

For instance: I have a laptop. I don't expect power from it, but it's "good enough" to run what I want. For real stuff like gaming, I have a nice computer at home.

If I had a small device that could take photos, phone, video, and mp3 all at "good enough" level, that'd be great. Since out of those, the only one I really care enough about are the photos and video, I'll also invest in a nice DV camcorder and a digital camera.

Will I take the nice stuff around everywhere? No. But I'll take the "good enough" stuff around everywhere with me.

That's what it boils down to--the idea of a swiss army knife.

[Pekka]

cameras are a hit in here as well, what I meant as that if that idea was presented to me before anyone had made such phone, I would have said 'bad idea'. And now I'd say to players 'a good idea'.

I'm not looking into getting low battery life crappy interface player either. I'm looking to get OK battery life and good interface player.

[Q Classic]

As far as trashing Nokia, I'm all for it. Nokia doesn't get it--their nGage is a flop, and honestly, they've been beaten to the market several times by competitors like Samsung to these features.

HD in a phone? Samsung has it. Why aren't they selling it in the US? Because of many reasons, some of them being: battery life, people in the states don't give as much of a damn about s3x1 phone models because they're "new"...

[Pekka]

And you just answered your own trashing. Nokia does not consider Samsung to be a super threat here in west, and on the other hand notices it's superiority in the east. Why bother? They would have to make tons of new models, to compete with Samsung, only to gain few percent in the east against Samsung, and maybe because of that losing in overall world wide. It's not even the goal of Nokia to compete with Samsung in new tech. They just want to sell most. You just said it yourself, it doesn't sell so well in here.

As for nGage, everyone knows it's a huge mistake. Most people predicted it to be a huge flop even before it was introduced and sold. So yeah, they didn't get it.

As far as beating the markets in the east, it's not in Japan and battling Samsung. It's in getting the deals in China done. And that's what they're trying to do and have been for the longest, we will see what happens in the future.

And yes most models are fugly. But they still dominate. FACT. They sell more and more every year, of course they lost some of the market share, but not that much, plus they are already preparing for the new generation, basically making strategic moves and trying to come up with solutions for the US markets, where Motorola is strong, and other brands are also doing quite OK, so is Nokia but they wish to do more well, and that's why they have started designing and making new phones just US consumers in their minds, and they are still making the baby steps in that regard and soon I expect them to boom in there better.

So to answer your posts.. nGage a flop. So? Show me a manufacturer who didn't have a flop model.
Battling with Samsung in the east and not really pushing it? So? Only makes sense.

[Asher]

Nokia doesn't consider Samsung a super threat in the west?

They're by far more popular than Nokia in my area.

As for the nGage...the reason it's relevant is Nokia used the same logic and reasoning with nGage as they are now. It's a mobile device, why shouldn't it play games like the Gameboy?

It's a mobile device, why shouldn't it play songs like the iPod?

People don't like half-assed entertainment devices.

It will flop.

[Pekka]

Samsung in west < Samsung in east. It's a different story to battle Samsung in either one of them. For battling Samsung in the east, they'd have to come up with new schedule to introducing their phones, and of course step up a notch to bring new technology in phones earlier. This would mean risky business, would it be worth it, I think they're doing a better job at lettign Samsung dominate east and concentrating on the future, China, where the HUGE deals are to be made who ever starts dominating well. Besides, someone is full of crap, since everyoen says well Samsung is dominating my area, Motorola is dominating my area, well how come Nokia is dominating world markets by far with the fugly models? Why does it sell more? And yes, others are catching up, but significant positions are still to be made by anyone.


Yeah, it is considered a vision where mobile device could do things fairly well, however, playing games (nGage) was going to flop for various reasons the music player is not. First of all, there was no support, meaning that you have to make the games for it and all that. And the other thing, there was no .. setting where it would say that if you make it, it will succeed. It was a far reach. Believe me, I don't know anyone who was saying it will succeed. Seems to me anyoen who said that was working for Nokia.

But there are no reasons why mp3player would NOT succeed in a mobile device. Like we have established, the battery life IS a serious issue, other than that, everything is very doable, including easy and good interface.

They're not making iPod here. They're adding a feature to a device. Technically, it's more than just realistical. Comparing to iPod is silly in other ways as well. They have nothing in common, except portability. Would you compare iPod to HiFi stereos? They're not the same product or league.

But where as iPod is a portable player, cell phone can be too, with the same features, excluding battery life.

So yeah, it's a mobile device, why shoukldn't it play songs like the iPod? Why not? What's half assed in listening music? It's not like there are many technical heurekas to be made. And unlike iPod currently, you don't need stinking iTunes, you can just download songs via internet easily. Because it has the connection...

And remember, it's not a competition against iPod. It's competition against OTHER phones. And like I said, other phones are doing the same. So I don't see why you have to be picking on Nokia on this particular issue. Except being extreme brand hater/lover .

[Asher]

So I don't see why you have to be picking on Nokia on this particular issue

Their executives were being arrogant, obvjously blatantly saying they will be the #1 mp3 player maker.

I haven't seen any other companies do that, aside from Apple.

[Pekka]

well, uhh, so? Since when advertising a product like that was arrogant????

Currently, right now, their feats for the player are better than competitors. NATURALLY others will wipe the N91 soon with their players abilities and back and forth we go. Saying it will be #1 is what you are supposed to say anyway, and they have any realistic chances at it just like any other major company such as Motoral, Ericsson and Samsung etc.

I don't see arrogance in it, unless I'd be biased against it to begin with .

[Pekka]

AAAAH sorry I read youir post wrong... you said #1 mp3player in the markest period.

Well.. humm.. maybe that's 'believe the hype' strategy, which can be a) succesful or b) embarrasing and joke to be used later on.

No I do not think they will exceed iPod sales anytime soon, and iPod is popular and gettimg more and more popular so.. yeah.

I thought it was about being #1 player in phones, not overall.

What can I say? They're being confident.. hope it doesn't get them later on.

[Atahualpa]

I don't know... I wouldn't really spend much money on a mobile phone.. I have them always with me, they fall down and break.. there goes the money

[Q Classic]

And you just answered your own trashing. Nokia does not consider Samsung to be a super threat here in west, and on the other hand notices it's superiority in the east.

Nokia accepts Samsung's dominance in the East, but does consider Samsung to be dangerous in the West. If they don't, it's to their folly--Samsung is the second/third-largest cellphone manufacturer world-wide (Motorola and Samsung are switching every quarter or so now), and is one of the leaders in both satisfaction and in sales in the United States alone.

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2004158

They just want to sell most. You just said it yourself, it doesn't sell so well in here.

I didn't say Samsung didn't sell well in the US. I said that Samsung doesn't bring its newest and most feature-filled phones to the US. Why? 1) It uses Korea and Japan as a test market, to try all the brand-spankin' new features the engineers put in, and then they see what sticks. 2) The phone ethic there is different than it is here; Americans look more for style and ease of use rather than new-but-unproven features.
That's one of the big reasons why Nokia's been losing market share in the US, as well: it's not designing for style--people like clamshells here, and Nokia's just released models for it--years late.

...I think they're doing a better job at lettign Samsung dominate east and concentrating on the future, China, where the HUGE deals are to be made who ever starts dominating well.

...which is precisely what Samsung and Motorola are doing as well. Currently, Nokia is in the lead, with Motorola and Samsung close behind in dominance. The largest local manufacturer is in a distant 4th, at less than 8%.

[Q Classic]

As far as beating the markets in the east, it's not in Japan and battling Samsung. It's in getting the deals in China done. And that's what they're trying to do and have been for the longest, we will see what happens in the future.

Samsung and LG are Korean companies. In phone manufacturing, the top three are Nokia (Finland), Motorola (United States), and Samsung (South Korea). Japan's highest is Sony Ericsson, which is also Sweden's; LG is Korean, and Kyocera is Japanese; those three are in the 5-10% bracket, second-stringers.

[Q Classic]

But there are no reasons why mp3player would NOT succeed in a mobile device. Like we have established, the battery life IS a serious issue, other than that, everything is very doable, including easy and good interface.

They're not making iPod here. They're adding a feature to a device. Technically, it's more than just realistical. Comparing to iPod is silly in other ways as well. They have nothing in common, except portability. Would you compare iPod to HiFi stereos? They're not the same product or league.

But where as iPod is a portable player, cell phone can be too, with the same features, excluding battery life.

So yeah, it's a mobile device, why shoukldn't it play songs like the iPod? Why not? What's half assed in listening music? It's not like there are many technical heurekas to be made. And unlike iPod currently, you don't need stinking iTunes, you can just download songs via internet easily. Because it has the connection...

And remember, it's not a competition against iPod. It's competition against OTHER phones. And like I said, other phones are doing the same. So I don't see why you have to be picking on Nokia on this particular issue. Except being extreme brand hater/lover

I'm just saying, this is nothing new to the cell phone world. Nokia is the one here playing technological catch-up.

[Q Classic]

Currently, right now, their feats for the player are better than competitors. NATURALLY others will wipe the N91 soon with their players abilities and back and forth we go. Saying it will be #1 is what you are supposed to say anyway, and they have any realistic chances at it just like any other major company such as Motoral, Ericsson and Samsung etc.

Ericsson, the Swedish concern, no longer exists as a cell-phone manufacturer. It's Sony Ericsson.