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  • Originally posted by Ned
    Now, why has GM failed to automate?
    GM's goal in the early 1980's was to "automate away from these ***holes", the ***holes being UAW workers. Their efforts to do so remain legendary in business history as possibly the worst example, in the post-war era, of throwing money at a problem.

    GM spent $75 billion on automation, factories, and process improvements from 1980-1989 alone. In an April 1986 conference of GM's top-500 operations people, CFO Alan Smith (no relation to then-chairman Roger Smith) said (in regards to the Saturn program and others): "For the same amount of money, we could buy both Toyota and Nissan. This would almost double our worldwide market share. Can we expect to double our worldwide share with this spending program?"

    Of course not. One of the early automation programs put into place by Roger Smith was a fully automated, "no man on the floor" axle factory in Saginaw Michigan. The fact that the axles would cost 50% more than those made at the already-existent UAW plant was ignored, and the factory was built... lauded, even, as the "Factory of the Future."

    But that was small potatos compared with Hamtramck. Here, GM would be able to show the world its control and mastery of a fully automated manufacturing process, with every day at Hamtramck being a robotic ballet as machines built, whirled, and danced as they pumped out custom-ordered car after custom-ordered car.

    It didn't work out that way. When the plant went online in the fall of 1985, it was supposed to showcase Roger Smiths dream of a 21st century car company, however it became the factory that marked the beginning of the end of Roger Smiths fascination with automation. The factory was supposed to eliminate Toyota's $2,000/vehicle cost advantage over GM, but instead turned into a horrible parody of what happens if you put GM executives in charge of a "Toyota style" system (which is what they thought they had.) GM spent over a billion dollars on robotics alone, but nobody thought to rearrange the production system, so when the factory opened it had over 5,000 UAW employees on the payroll! And, as is common with new technology, GM had many bugs and problems to work out - usually this isn't too much of a problem, but with the hundreds of brand-new systems it meant that something was breaking down every day. In addition, not one of the people on the plant were trained in the care of robots or software - GM had to call that specific robots manufacturer to send out a representative so they could repair the robot. Even worse was the operational design that had the entire line shut down if just a single robot broke.

    The financial effects were felt immediately. 3Q 1985 results showed that GM suffered the first operating loss in 60 years, $20.9 million, and total cash reserves fell by 40% in 1985. Two years after it opened, the newly automated, "let's 'bury' those ***holes" factory in downtown Detroit was putting in a stunning 100 hours of labor for each car, five times as much as GM's Japanese competitors. Car design didn't help either: the front and rear bumpers of a Cadillac Seville had more than 460 separate parts and took over 33 minutes of labor to assemble and affix to the car. Each.

    Regardless, GM spent an additional $35 billion on automation and "factories of the future" after it became evident that Hamtramck and others like it were colossal failures.

    The fact is, seeing what has happened to this company since 1980 makes you realize that Michael Moore was right... but for the wrong reasons. Roger Smith was a horrible CEO, possibly the best example of the wrong person in the wrong place at the wrong time in the history of corporate governance. When this is all said and done, with GM's name writ in water, people will look back at his reign and say "Yup. That's where it went irreversibly wrong - somewhere between 1982 and 1989."
    Last edited by JohnT; May 9, 2005, 10:45.

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    • The difference between LV and GM is that LV is all services and services by and large aren't exposed to trade.
      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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      • LV?

        I'm getting slow in my old age and can't place the abbreviation...

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        • Las Vegas. Hotels and casinos, etc. In response to Dissident's response to Ned.
          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

          Comment


          • Excellent post, JohnT, very interesting.


            I just can't believe some of the things GM does. I mean it seems so amatuerish, at times as if someone is TRYING to fail.

            Case in point was that Pontiac SUV that came out in 2000. It was versatile but the ugliest vehicle in the history of mankind. It's like they gave the CEO's troubled high school kid an intern job to design the car and see how bad he could do.

            I WAS shocked however, to see Pontiac's two newest cars, the G6, and the Solstice. These seem like Nissan copycat cars (Maxima and Z), but they seem to be the best looking cars I've seen from Pontiac in a very long time.

            In other news, now that I'm actually looking for those Priuses, they are literally everywhere. Last year they had a 7 month waiting list to get them. But I heard Toyota increased their production something like 5 times of what they were making before. They are everywhere. They have made a major play with their Scions too, those things are selling like mad.

            My whole garage is Toyota. Except for me, I drive a Honda.
            We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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            • I'm beginning to think about a new car as well. First thing I ask my car-guy neighbors: "Do y'all sell hybrids?"

              I still prefer to buy American. However, I also think it's important to shift away from the consumption of oil as motor fuel and if I can't find that in American cars... well, that's a fuggin' dilemma!

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              • Originally posted by Ted Striker
                Excellent post, JohnT, very interesting.


                I just can't believe some of the things GM does. I mean it seems so amatuerish, at times as if someone is TRYING to fail.

                Case in point was that Pontiac SUV that came out in 2000. It was versatile but the ugliest vehicle in the history of mankind. It's like they gave the CEO's troubled high school kid an intern job to design the car and see how bad he could do.
                Thanks for the props.

                You might be a little young, but do you happen to remember Fords' "the Valet" commercials that ran in the mid-80s? In the commercial, a bunch of high society people were leaving some function and a person asks the valet to get his Caddy. When the valet returns with the car, person #1 starts forward, only to be stopped by somebody else saying "Wait. I think that's my Buick." The couple (I think) headed towards another car, only to be stopped by a third couple saying "No, that's my Oldsmobile." Pandemonium reigned as the GM owners couldn't determine whose car was whose... until the Hero steps forwards and suavely asks for his new Lincoln Town Car.

                In all those surveys about "most effective" and "most humorous" commercials, this one always gets jilted though it was one of the funniest commercials I've ever seen (hell, I still remember it 20 years after it ran!)

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                • I didn't think about this earlier, but I realized that if GM's average interest rate on their downgraded debt rises to just 7% they'll pay out over $21 billion in carrying charges alone on their $300 billion in issues.

                  ... That's 11% of their gross revenues

                  ... That's 88% of their labor costs

                  ... That's almost insupportable

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                  • Btw, according to their tender offer statement, filed May 4th, Tracinda reveals that the average cost for their 22,000,000 shares of GM is slightly over $26/share.

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                    • Originally posted by JohnT


                      Roger Smith was a horrible CEO, possibly the best example of the wrong person in the wrong place at the wrong time in the history of corporate governance. When this is all said and done, with GM's name writ in water, people will look back at his reign and say "Yup. That's where it went irreversibly wrong - somewhere between 1982 and 1989."
                      The board that appointed Roger Smith was also horrible; not only the guy had not the caliber to drive such a great boat, but apparently his powers to commit the company were not limited as they should have been, and the board approved complacently his projects.
                      Statistical anomaly.
                      The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JohnT
                        I'm beginning to think about a new car as well. First thing I ask my car-guy neighbors: "Do y'all sell hybrids?"

                        I still prefer to buy American. However, I also think it's important to shift away from the consumption of oil as motor fuel and if I can't find that in American cars... well, that's a fuggin' dilemma!
                        Hence your motor industry is dying...you need to keep up...oil prices are going to keep on going up and up. For my next car I am going to look to something like a hybrid, or a diesel at the very least...
                        Speaking of Erith:

                        "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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                        • That story about automation illustrates that with bad management and the worse engineering anything can go wrong. They should have started small and learned.

                          On labor costs, we all know the problem with the philosophy expressed by likes of the pinko Michael Moore that GM owes its workers a job and high pay its same time. The problem with that philosophy is that when GM does grant its workers higher pay and many benefits, it goes out of business. I think that Michael Moore knows this in his heart of hearts, but he doesn't care for some reason. Either that, or he fully intends to drive American companies out of business.

                          That a bit about oil prices always staying high, I strongly doubt that. When prices get high, new drilling takes place and new refineries are built. It is only a matter of time and the prices come down.
                          http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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                          • Originally posted by JohnT
                            I'm beginning to think about a new car as well. First thing I ask my car-guy neighbors: "Do y'all sell hybrids?"

                            I still prefer to buy American. However, I also think it's important to shift away from the consumption of oil as motor fuel and if I can't find that in American cars... well, that's a fuggin' dilemma!
                            Ford makes several hybrids though GM and DC seem to be lagging in coming out with one.
                            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Ned
                              On labor costs, we all know the problem with the philosophy expressed by likes of the pinko Michael Moore that GM owes its workers a job and high pay its same time.
                              Yeah, all companies owe their workers is the lash and enough bread and water to do their jobs. Too bad they won't be able to buy any cars.

                              Why do conservatives never see that unless you pay your employees, you have no one to buy your goods? What, you think the employees of other companies are going to buy them, when other companies are going to do the samething you do? Conseratvies are always so short-sighted. That's why you're the enemies of humanity.
                              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                              • In-depth coverage of the automotive industry, vehicle recalls, concept car releases, spy shots, auto show news, celebrity car crashes, first drive reports and more


                                Article about dumb ideas coming out of GM.
                                Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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