Mugabe at Papal funeral

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Wow... such a fan of national soveriegnty you are . I guess that means EU countries should nab people like Kissinger in the US to have trials for them

Who cares about the microstates? They'll do as there told, or they'll be annexed. Andorra, Monaco, Liechtenstein, San Marino, Vatican... all of them together could easily fit inside Rhode Island. Do you think that the US would respect Andorra's or San Marino's sovereignty if bin Laden were there attending a state funeral?

As for not storming tha Vatican, maybe it has something to do with the old fashioned idea of sanctuary. I doubt it though.

[Wycoff]

BTW, are Andorra, San Marino, Monaco, and Liechtenstein part of the EU? I know they're not listed as official member countries, but some of them aren't completely and truly independent.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

There are a number of similar places. The Isle of Man isn't part of the EU either- however they all tend to have special dispensations allowing them to benefit from all the big treaty stuff. The slippery little weasels.

[Frozzy]

There's EU member states (which we know as being part of the EU), and there's "EU Associate Members" which is a roundabout way of saying you're in the EU, but you don't need to give us money, and you don't benefit from freedom of travel in the EU.

Essentially EUAMs are given to states who have applied to be in the EU. Cyprus and Malta were examples before they were let in.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp


http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/news...73fec43ba9.htm

Kinky.

[Shi Huangdi]

"
So someone who votes for a pro-choice candidate can be denied communion, but a murdering tyrant who oppresses his people gets a free pass? Nice priorities."

- It was only one bishop who denied people who voted for pro-choice candidayes communion IIRC, Colorado Springs

- Being able to take communion and being able to attend mass are two different things.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Wow... such a fan of national soveriegnty you are . I guess that means EU countries should nab people like Kissinger in the US to have trials for them

If it works for the U.S. outside its borders with non-U.S. citizens, then....


In any case, the U.S. government has had a whole slew of people even worse than Mugabe through White House doors, as have plenty of other 'enlightened' democracies- Ceaucescu (when he was the West's 'chink' in the Warsaw Pact armour) had a few guest houses to stay in around the world, including Buckingham Palace.

We could also reasonably have asked how the leaders of Liberia, Iran, and the Philippines and the old Soviet Union's pet stooges could move so easily around the world.


It's one of the unpleasant aspects and fictions of international politics and diplomacy- the equivalent of Jeffrey Dahmer or Harold Shipman being able to swan in and out of international conferences around the world whilst at home their country labours under martial law or worse, and their people are deprived of their legal rights and the franchise and food and liberty.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
- It was only one bishop who denied people who voted for pro-choice candidayes communion IIRC, Colorado Springs

Was he reprimaned by the church? It's still excommunication, by definition.

- Being able to take communion and being able to attend mass are two different things.

Mugabe hasn't even been excommunicated. Since the purpose of it is to "correct" the errant, I'm astounded this hasn't been done. If the RCC finds his activities appalling--which I hope they do--then there's no reason not to excommunicate him.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Winston
How convenient to be able to close ones eyes to the nastiness of despots, provided they're Socialists of course.

Leave it to Winston to be completely wrong. Mugabe is thug, no doubt. There is, however, a disproportionate amount of outrage about Mugabe as compared with, say, the dictators of Sudan. Mugabe, as bad as he is, isn't even in the same league as Marcos, and yet his name aourses as much hatred as Idi Amin. Why? Well it certainly isn't the scale of his crimes. It is only because Mugabe is seizing the property of a few hundred rich Europeans. His crime is being Black and not being properly deferential to whites.

OMFG, he's taking the property of whites! He's as bad as someone who eats his enemies!!!!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Mugabe hasn't even been excommunicated. Since the purpose of it is to "correct" the errant, I'm astounded this hasn't been done. If the RCC finds his activities appalling--which I hope they do--then there's no reason not to excommunicate him.

If they didn't excumuniacate Franco, why would they execomunicate Mugabe. Just because he's a thief?

[Boris Godunov]

Downplaying Mugabe's crimes?

How about false arrests, rape, torture and murder, che?

http://www.kubatana.net/html/archive/hr/041210me.asp?sector=HR&range_start=1

"The well-documented and mounting evidence of these crimes committed by Mugabe’s government is staggering. According to the Zimbabwe Human Rights NGO Forum, thousands of Zimbabweans who oppose Mugabe are tortured, murdered, unlawfully arrested and detained, raped or abducted on a regular basis by the government and Mugabe’s henchmen. Other inhumane acts include the systematic policy of using food as an political weapon. If a Zimbabwean is not a member of Mugabe’s ruling party, she will not receive one morsel of the sustaining grain distributed by the government in order to feed her family."

Wow, starving people who disagree with you politically. What a trifle.

Maybe you think AI is some sort of evil biased org with an agenda against Mugabe?

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAFR460032005?open&of=ENG-ZWE

Mugabe is a gross violator of human rights. Dismissing him as a mere "thief" is horrifying.

[chequita guevara]

No, he's a minor violater of human rights. Is he a thug? Yes. Does he torture and murder people? Yes. Is he in the top ten of the worst dictators in the world? Not a chance. And compared to past dictators, the guy is tame.

Let's put it this way. If China's president went to the funeral, would you be spitting bullets? I'd wager not, even though the dictatorship in China is probably the worst in the world today. But then, China doesn't steal white people's farms.

[KrazyHorse]

NK is worse than China

[chequita guevara]

Only in quality, not quantity. NK doesn't lord over 1.25 billion people. I was torn between the two, though.

[KrazyHorse]

The thing about Mugabe is how rapidly Zimbabwe has gone from being a relatively (of course) prosperous and free country to being an absolute ****hole. China is slowly (ever so slowly) moving toward greater civil liberties. Zimbabwe is rapidly losing them.