Fake memos and the MSM - Round 2

[Drake Tungsten]

And you say that on what basis?

The Traditional Values Coalition's talking points were out before the memo was. This isn't rocket science.

Kincaid said that it appears that three sentences from the memo were lifted from a March 8 press release on the Schiavo case issued by the office of Senator Mel Martinez. The Martinez release had none of the political points and Martinez aide Kerry Feehery said she didn't know where those controversial references came from. "It wasn't us," she told AIM. "We have no association with it whatsoever."

The Martinez March 8 release had been posted on the web site of the Traditional Values Coalition, where it could have been easily copied and then altered.

http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid=2199

One reason for this perception may be the "GOP talking points memo" that was distributed on March 17, when the Senate took up the bill that conferred federal jurisdiction over a last effort to save Mrs. Schiavo. The memo was first reported by ABC's Linda Douglass on Friday, March 18. The next day, on ABC's Good Morning America, Kate Snow confronted House Majority Leader Tom DeLay with "some talking points that Senate Republicans were circulating"; DeLay denied any knowledge of the memo.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/416virea.asp?pg=1

Emphasis added to dates in case Ramo is too dense to notice them.

Keep on spinning, you hack...

[Ramo]

It was out before it was leaked to the press. Christ Drake, this is pathetic.

[Drake Tungsten]

I DanS'd you...

[GePap]

Again, so repugs are either imbeciles or liars. Why should anyone be arguing with you Drakie?

I like that choice.

[Drake Tungsten]

Again, so repugs are either imbeciles or liars.

That's certainly an interesting conclusion...

[Ramo]

That's actually an interesting point. It's a shame that the original piece didn't include it.

[Admiral]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Drake finds it suspicious that a conservative org literally parrots GOP talking points.

The point is that the memo plagarizes the conservative organization's talking points. The memo was copied word-for-word from the Traditonal Values Coalition, not the other way around.

The problem with your argument, Drake, is that it goes against occams razor. It is true that there is no conclusive evidence that the memo is true. It is also true that there is no conclusive evidence that it is fake. This doesn't mean that we can't assign the memo to one category with some degree of certainty. Let's examine some of the facts of the case.

A) The CBS memo incident was bad for CBS. Dan Rather, one of the foundations of the network, was forced to resign, Republicans got to have a field day about supposed liberal biasand I imagine that less people watch CBS now. The upshot of it is that networks (with the probable exception of Fox - they've never really cared about facts) would be much more careful about evidence, and that much more likely to not air suspect pieces of information. That, in and of itself, lends credence to the credibility of the memo.

B) The overarching message of the memo is that the Schiavo case provides a good opportunity to play politics. And, the Republicans have played politics with the Schiavo case. Admittedly, things turned against them, but it is self-evident that Republicans thought they had a golden opportunity, and jumped for it. And, in this case, it was all of the far-right organizations. This was a massive push by the far right. Now, they could have all come to the same conclusion, and could have just happened to all jump in. But, the case went from insignificant to major in a very short period of time, so the window for Republican realizations would have had to be small. Still nothing compelling here. But the contents of the memo definitely translated into action.

C) Res Ramo's point. The Republicans could have all copied the talking points of the TVC. But if the TVC point was just a message on a website, it would be a lot less likely to reach so many Republicans. What would have had a better way of reaching a large number of Republican activists would have been something like, I don't know, a memo...

D) Your argument doesn't really follow. Why is it more likely that the memo would have been copied from TVC, and not that TVC would copy from the memo? In fact, you don't really have an argument at all, because if you admit that that is more likely, you operate under the assumption that unless proven otherwise, Democrats would be sneaking around creating false memos. Once you assume this, there is really no point in arguing with you at all. It is like arguing a criminal case with someone who assumes guilt unless proven otherwise.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Again, so repugs are either imbeciles or liars.

That's certainly an interesting conclusion...

Its a rather simple one:

Either the memo was a fake, yet the repugs in congress failed utterly to disavow it, perhaps because it is so much like what they would say (after all, your article is claiming perhaps democrats used bits of republican statements- so in the end the statements are the sort of things republicans would say)

Or the Weekly Moron (yeah, right, standard) is lying to save some political face.

Either way, its fun!

Thank God for stupid, mendicious congressional repugs

[Drake Tungsten]

The upshot of it is that networks (with the probable exception of Fox - they've never really cared about facts) would be much more careful about evidence, and that much more likely to not air suspect pieces of information. That, in and of itself, lends credence to the credibility of the memo.

Your argument doesn't really follow. Why is it more likely that the memo would have been copied from TVC, and not that TVC would copy from the memo?

Have you even been reading the thread?

[Drake Tungsten]

Either the memo was a fake, yet the repugs in congress failed utterly to disavow it

Didn't you read the article, which has Republicans diavowing the memo? Damn, you boys are really on the ball today...

[Admiral]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Have you even been reading the thread?

Have you?

[Drake Tungsten]

Yeah. It's been hilarious so far!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Either the memo was a fake, yet the repugs in congress failed utterly to disavow it

Didn't you read the article, which has Republicans diavowing the memo?

Yeah, now.

[Drake Tungsten]

Yeah, now.

One reason for this perception may be the "GOP talking points memo" that was distributed on March 17, when the Senate took up the bill that conferred federal jurisdiction over a last effort to save Mrs. Schiavo. The memo was first reported by ABC's Linda Douglass on Friday, March 18. The next day, on ABC's Good Morning America, Kate Snow confronted House Majority Leader Tom DeLay with "some talking points that Senate Republicans were circulating"; DeLay denied any knowledge of the memo.

Jesus, how many times do I have to excerpt this?

[Admiral]

Given Delay's past, I am going to pre-suppose that anything he denies that, without denial, would be harmful to him, is in fact correct.

On a less facetious note, of course Delay denied it. He has to deny it. How many times in your life have politians admitted to something without being forced to. Take Clinton, for example. He could have admitted to sex with Monica, and no matter how much the Republicans tried, it just couldn't have been any sort of issue, and certainly not something that would have created an impeachment hearing.