Apostates of Islam

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Heresson



Look at Israel. Orthodox Jews forbiding blocking roads in sabat and throwing rocks at cars, law forbiding import or production of pork even for non-Jewish people...
.

actually plenty of Orthodox Jews, and even a few ultra-Orthodox are embarrased by the rock throwing stuff.

Law forbidding pork? Nu? There are countries that ban Kosher slaughter, for the sake of the animals. So Israel cares alot about the well being of pigs, whats it to you

[Az]

No, you're just stating your belief. You have no knowledge.

I think he was replying to me, actually.

[KrazyHorse]

My remark applies equally well no matter what he was responding to.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
My remark applies equally well no matter what he was responding to.

Very true...

[Az]

[Heresson]

2 Peter uses the word "scriptures" when speaking of Paul's writings (not done till 2nd century)

Then, Peter's letter could be the first example of such use of this word
Also, it may have been a bit changed by someone re-writing it in II century.

2 Peter mentions widespread persecution of Christians, which did not occur until the reign of Domitian

It may be a prophesy
Or exagerration of earlier persecutions

2 Peter mentions the problem of a failing belief among Christians in the imminence of the second coming, something which did not occur until the 2nd century

If He mentions it, it did

No, you're just stating your belief. You have no knowledge.

Actually, it was a reply to Azazel. And yes, in this case I'm stating my belief in prof. Stepien's knowledge.

Originally posted by lord of the mark


actually plenty of Orthodox Jews, and even a few ultra-Orthodox are embarrased by the rock throwing stuff.

Law forbidding pork? Nu? There are countries that ban Kosher slaughter, for the sake of the animals. So Israel cares alot about the well being of pigs, whats it to you

Kosher slaughter is cruel to animals. Israel does not care how pigs are slaughtered. And they do not care about their safe existance... For in result, pigs do not exist in Israel.
Anti-kosher laws come out of love for animals, anti-pig laws in Israel come out of hatred towards poor pigs.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm not a Jew, but to say Kosher slaughter is cruel to animals is ridiculous. Kosher slaughtering is meant to NOT cause undue pain and suffering by the animal. The animal must be killed quickly and cleanly.

[Az]

For in result, pigs do not exist in Israel.

I've got meat in the fridge that says otherwise.

[Spiffor]

I'm by no means a specialist, but isn't kosher slaughter about bleeding the animal alive?

[Az]

Blood loss is a pretty painless death, IIRC.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Ramo

Yeah, but it was a pretty poor one.

Not my fault if you're too dense to get the point.

It's not my fault You're too dense to make a docent analogy.

And in which situations do every other contemporary source contradict it?

Do all the other sources say explicitely: the massacre of Banu Qurayza didn't take place, or do they just don't mention it?
Anyway, You have to ask yourself if they do not have an interest in denying or not mentioning this fact.

No, the oldest Chronicle is the Qur'an. Ishaq ostensibly wrote his Chronicle a century later.

Al-Qur'an is not a chronicle.

Did it happen? Maybe, maybe not. The most rational guess is that it didn't happen. Of course, if you have an axe to grind with Islam and want to paint the religion as intrinsically intolerant, you might have an ideological reason to say that it did happen.

Why would Ibn Ishaaq lie?

[Heresson]

I've got meat in the fridge that says otherwise.

Perhaps the law was lifted, or is not respected

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Heresson

, anti-pig laws in Israel come out of hatred towards poor pigs.

Youre not required to hate pigs under kosher law - just not eat them. In fact i think its allowed to keep them as pets if you wish, or to, say, hunt for truffles.

Im sure the poor piggies are not so enamored of being eaten.

Wheres General Ludd when we need him?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Heresson


Perhaps the law was lifted, or is not respected

'"But Kibbutz Lahav, from the staunchly secular Hashomer Hatzair movement, found a loophole in the law. Dr. Dan Ratner, an expert in pig breeding and a geneticist, helped found the Israel Institute for Animal Studies.

"There was a law passed in 1963 banning pig farming in Israel. All the kibbutzim stopped raising pigs. But the law allowed pigs to be raised for research purposes. Any surplus pigs were allowed to be slaughtered," Ratner says.

Surplus?

"Oh we have thousands of surplus pigs every season," he says with a wink, adding that the slaughterhouse is one of the most economically stable kibbutz endeavors. '

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Leviticus is one of the big reasons most people laugh at the Christian fundimentalists who argue the Bible is the literal word of god and is infallable. .

they shouldnt - ive heard some really kewl sermons based on V'yikra - what you guys call Leviticus - of course they didnt feel constrained to a "literal" interpretation.

Its really frustrating when some Christian, or atheist, judges Judaism by how fundies use the Hebrew scriptures, without taking into account the Jewish traditions of interpretation (and yes, there are proof texts justifiying those approaches to interpretation, even if said proof texts may appear somewhat strained ) One of the things that gives me sympathy for the muslims when their texts are attacked - I have little doubt violence is being done to THEIR traditions by the taking of texts out of civilizational context.