Let's talk about European antisemitism

[Agathon]

Nice post Shawn..

He's often biased, ignorant, and too self-confident.

The first two... yes; but so are most people on Poly.

The middle - never...

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

So he is biased and ignorant but not ignorant, ehhh?

[Heresson]

Molly IS ignorant sometimes. For example, He was defending a concept that western Ukraine was Roman catholic, and that Greek-catholicism wasn't stamped out under tzarist Russian rule (effectively it survived in the part of Ukraine belonging to Austria), which is simply wrong...
Or He was repeating IV-century pagan anti-Christian propaganda of a considered very unreliable historian
just to match his concepts.

[Mr. Harley]

Heresson - I am suggesting Molly would SUPPORT what you posted (my post may have been unclear, especially is English is not a primary language, I apologize). I know enough of the history to recognize the periods/rulers/regions you are talking about, and Molly has made some excellent references about the Northern African Moslem kingdoms that were totally new to me. I am suggesting to the other posters if they disagree with you that they use Molly - as refereee.

[Az]

disagrees with me = ignorant

helluva logic.

[Heresson]

Azazel, the question whether Wolyn for example of Kiev are Greek-catholic or orthodox demands a simple answer: no. Ask an Ukrainian if You do not believe me.
Molly Bloom didn't want to accept it, He was obviously wrong in that matter.

[Az]

So he is biased and ignorant but not ignorant, ehhh?

just noticed this...

Azazel, the question whether Wolyn for example of Kiev are Greek-catholic or orthodox demands a simple answer: no. Ask an Ukrainian if You do not believe me.
Molly Bloom didn't want to accept it, He was obviously wrong in that matter.

I am sure he brought evidence of his own. I can tell you a lot of things that you can ask every Israeli, and you would disagree. Probably would call me ignroant, too.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Heresson
Molly IS ignorant sometimes. For example, He was defending a concept that western Ukraine was Roman catholic, and that Greek-catholicism wasn't stamped out under tzarist Russian rule (effectively it survived in the part of Ukraine belonging to Austria), which is simply wrong...

I don't know the context of the discussion that you're describing, but I'd like to mention the fact that the Uniate church (Greek-Catholic) still survives, at least in the US. My fiance has Ukranian grandparents, and they gew up attending the Uniate church in Simpson, Pennsylvania. It's still there today.

Again, I don't know how relevant this is to your previous discussion, but I just wanted to add that for your own information.

[Heresson]

I am sure he brought evidence of his own

Yes. A wikipedia article if I recall. It didn't mention destruction of greek-catholic church in the Russian-seized lands, so He thought they are still greek-catholic

Wycoff, of course Greek-catholic church survives. Actually it's called "Ukrainian-Byzantine" now.
I was just pointing that the Greek-catholic church was exterminated in the parts of Ukraine that Russia got after partages of Poland; it survived up till 1946 in the Galicia-Lodomeria, that is a "kingdom" carved out of Poland by Austria (that is, Krakow, Lwow, Stanislawow/Iwano-Frankowsk and Tarnopol), and revived after the fall of communism. There was some turmoil in western Ukraine as it revived and took back its churches from the orthodox. The orthodox see it as catholic agression.

Probably would call me ignroant, too.

Assumptions with no validity

[Az]

I was just kidding..

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor
If tomorrow we polled the Americans, and 85% agreed with the statement "Italians have a different mentality and way of life from the Americans", would this denote a deep anti-Italian streak? I don't think so.
.

given that most italian americans DONT have a different way of life, let alone a different mentality, despite preservation of some cultural traditions, Id have to suspect it WAS a deep anti-Italian streak. Especially if it were phrased as say, " a different attitude to organized crime" wink-wink, or a "different attitude to hygiene" wink - wink. If you say a group has a different attitude to money, wink-wink, when it doesnt, and the group has been historically ostracized and even murdered for that alleged different attitude, then well, its time to stop accepting the winks.

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by shawnmmcc

Heresson - it's nice to see someone else who has not bought into the poor "state of Israel" crap.

you mean where he points out that Israel took aggressive actions pre-67, and neglects to mention that the arab states in question refused to recognize Israel and were pledged to its destruction?

Maybe, just maybe, it's because Heresson is doing a very nice job of refuting it's never been the Arabs/Palestinians land?

you mean the part were he list arab/muslim states that ruled it, despite the fact that not one of said states had its capital in "palestine"?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Heresson

1948 (I think) Abd Allah was proclaimed king of Palestine

Abdullah wanted all of greater Syria, so hes hardly one to cite for a "palestinian" national identity.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Heresson

true.
1920 Faysal was proclaimed king of Syria and Palestine in Damascus (was forced out by the French and eventually became king of Iraq).

Faysal was offering the Zionists free immigration in return for support agains the French.

[Heresson]

neglects to mention that the arab states in question refused to recognize Israel and were pledged to its destruction?

Everyone knows that.

you mean the part were he list arab/muslim states that ruled it, despite the fact that not one of said states had its capital in "palestine"?

As I've mentioned, Palestine was for some time autonomous in Ottoman Empire.
Also, the question was if any of the states invading Israel ever owned Palestine. I've proven that in fact, they did.

Faysal was offering the Zionists free immigration in return for support agains the French.

But not independant state

Abdullah wanted all of greater Syria, so hes hardly one to cite for a "palestinian" national identity.

So... according to You, if there was no Palestinian identity, Jews should get entire Palestine?