IQ differences and racism

[Kidlicious]

Even if your race was shown to be more intelligent you personally would still be a dumb ass.

That's just aimed at racists in general.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

IQ tests are stupid. I've taken some that have told me I'm a genious. Then I've taken others which ask for meaningless trivia.

One I took in the 7th grade asked me the square root of all these numbers, some algebra I didn't know how to do... and how many kilometres it was from China to California. The results came back and I was officially retarded I think alot of IQ tests work on this premise... they assume that if you don't know something, then you must not be capable of ever knowing it. And then its no surprise that people come around with the kind of BS in the OP.

My take is this: since intelligence is partly/largely/totally determined by genetics (as is skin color, hair, resistance to diseases, etc), then it is likely that there are measurable differences between the various races. However, the difference will be so small (and, with all the interbreeding going on in the modern world, constantly shrinking) that it will matter little except for pride.

Thats a logical assumption but its just not the case. When it comes to genetics there's a saying "it only takes one sh@g", which means if someone visits a genetically different group and has sex with one person, then those genes are now spread into the new group quite profusely. And you're also assuming that "interbreeding" has just started... its been going on for hundreds of thousands of years. The idea of an "isolated" community is largely a myth. Every group has at least some contact with at least one other group... and always has. There really is no reason to believe that capacity for intelligence is any different for any group or any individuals.

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
IQ tests are stupid. I've taken some that have told me I'm a genious.

Oh, the irony.......

I hope you didn't pay for those tests.....

[MikeH]

1. We can't define intelligence.

2. If we can't define it we can't measure it.

THEREFORE: Talking about genetic intelligence differences is meaningless.

FURTHERMORE: This allso means that, purely logically, talking about racial genetic differences in intelligence is pure racism.

You can close this thread now Ming, I've provided the definitive post.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
remember - its logically possible for IQ to have a genetic component,

I would think that it does-- The kid of two parents that are dumb as posts seems to rarely be as bright as the child of two very smart people. Anecdotally, I believe we have seen this many many times (and I believe it usually holds true even if the children in question are educated in the exact same system -- although smarter parents that challenge their child may account for some of the differences)

AS for race and the articles, I am not quite sure what the author is advocating except that it is clear that he would reject affirmative action programs. Much of what he writes seems too broad-brush . Like many, I doubt that IQ tests are diverse enough to be an accurate indicator of "intelligence"

Personally, I am a big believer in merit and don't think we should be striving for any given gender or racial mix for any job. If programs can exist so that there is financial support for anyone that is capable of getting an advanced education, I think that is where our focus should be. The top students in any racial group can perform well enough academically to qualify and as long as there are no artificial barriers preventing the qualified individuals from persuing their career, I think we should just let things be.

[Whaleboy]

Indeed, which is why I chose my words carefully and kept away from 'intelligence' and 'IQ'

Ah I didn't direct that at you, it was just a general assessment of the argument.

1. We can't define intelligence.

2. If we can't define it we can't measure it.

THEREFORE: Talking about genetic intelligence differences is meaningless.

FURTHERMORE: This allso means that, purely logically, talking about racial genetic differences in intelligence is pure racism.

You can close this thread now Ming, I've provided the definitive post.

The scary thing is that it actually is the definitive post!

[reds4ever]

Ming, can you rename this thread 'General mental capability differences and racism (the non-judgemental mix)' to shut MikeH up?

[GePap]

Hmm, which group devised IQ tests? Oh, yes I forgot, white males. BUt I am sure they would so just as well on an IQ test designed by black women, cause we all know how intelliegence is the same always. Just look at the trully successful and rich in the world- I bet you they are all mensa members, the whole lot of them, YUP, everyone in Mensa is sticking rich and has lots of babies and are genetic supermen



I am sure genetics plays some part in how high someone can score in an IQ test. The problem is that success in an IQ test has **** to do with being succesful in life.

You want to meet the smartest people in the world? Go meet some stone age tribesmen. Cause over there, unlike here, being dumb = being dead. I am sure that works wonders in thinning the herd to the best people.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
The very FIRST thing you learn about IQ testing in the most basic psychology course is that it is inherently subjective and has always been plagued by cultural bias... there is no means of measuring "intelligence" that isn't (and a definition of intelligence is needed of course). And phrenology has been debunked for a century.

When anyone talks about inheritable differences in IQ along racial lines (remembering of course that there is far more genetic diversity within Africa itself than between a West African and European), I get extremely suspicious, unless the author is trying to say that the nuances of culture and education are genetically encoded too?

So now you're saying that balcks are not of the same culture as white amreicans ? That they do not share the american cultural heritage ? That they do not , in other works , belong to mainstream culture ?

How racist of you !!!!!11!!!!!!!!!
























Now do you see the absurdity of calling bringing up and trying to discuss differences in race racist ?

[Elok]

Um, if you read the actual articles the guy has a very muddled point but does not appear to be advocating racism. Basically he's saying that we should judge by IQ, not by skin color, though statistically he would expect more whites and asians in the higher-end jobs. However, due to the variation in races, mean or no mean, judging directly by race is by his standards not a sensible course of action. That's what he says.

I just wanted to say, in his defense, the guy is not talking like PA or anything. He's speaking too vaguely to be certain how full of crap he is or isn't though. I don't think he ever cites a single study by name to support his "g" statement. He argues fairly well against Gardner's multiple-intelligence theory, but there's nothing conclusive in that article, certainly not enough to support the radical things he advocates.

[aneeshm]

The author provided his definition of intelligence , which it seems has been ignored here . He said that there is a general common factor which is common to all intelligence tests , and which comes out the same on all of them . It is this which , AFAIK , he is using as a base .

[Az]

Hmm, which group devised IQ tests? Oh, yes I forgot, white males.

That's the 2nd stupidest argument in this thread after the "race determines intelligence".

[aneeshm]

The link to the study was in the linked article ( as are many other links to other studies , if you care to go to the original website/blog ) , which I have given here .

[Elok]

EDIT: Sorry, X-Post. I guess I shouldn't have asked, I'm not very good at interpreting science-speak, especially over a paper that huge. I'll leave the analysis to those who have patience for it, but if his claims that differences in socioeconomic origin were accounted for and differences in IQ still tend to corellate with criminal activity, he may have a point. I'll just wait for others to rip it apart looking for holes though, I had a test in Archaeology this morning and my brain's not up to snuff.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Azazel

Hmm, which group devised IQ tests? Oh, yes I forgot, white males.

That's the 2nd stupidest argument in this thread after the "race determines intelligence".

Darn, miss first place.

Of course, if a test of intelliegnce was made by say a Aborigene, he would sure as hell not ask about square roots, but how to get roots out of the gorund and cook them so you won;t die.

Who writes the test matters, even if you don't like it.

Any article that says that one can;t trust Gould cause he was a "practicing Marxists", or makes a claim as stupid as "stupid people are always more violent" is not worth much arguement.