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I think there will be an economic collapse by then, and this time no one will come out smelling like roses. But either way I don't picture Americans starting wars that they can't win. It's really not in our nature.
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I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh -
Its my second West Wing quote of the day but you made me think of...I don't picture Americans starting wars that they can't win. It's really not in our nature.
Whitehouse Communications Director: Leo, wouldn’t this time be better spent plotting a war against a country that can’t possibly defend itself against us?
Whitehouse Chief of Staff: We can do that later, Toby. Right now I’m talking about President Andrew Jackson.
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Speculations folks. Get to the facts.
The US is an open, capitalist society with a representative form of government. It has strengths and weaknesses. One of the weaknesses is the total inability to have a national plan. We react; otherwise everything here is about maintaining an environment conducive to the interests of capital investment.
I can't see how we can be considered a threat to go about conquering folks.
If the Iraq mess will serve any useful purpose it has been a needed reminder to a lot of our idiots. The US does not have the ability to impose its will on the world militarily.
Yes, the US will decline economically relative to the rest of the world. But that is not seen as a bad thing to power interests here, more markets and more investment opportunities. Capital interests are only capable of following short-term plans. It is all about the quick buck.
We live in a nuclear age. There will not be anymore WWII type engagements. We live in the time of technological revolution, an information age. As the power of the individual increases across the globe the threat of nationalism recedes. Democracy is loose in the world. Things are not so bad.
Look at it this way, if in all these years we haven't been able to do anything about Cuba, what the hell are the rest of you worried about?Comment
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I dont think anyone said that the US was going to go on a global killing spree. That said, I don't think the average American is going to handle the idea that they've permanently lost the number one spot very well and we could see some pretty repulsive figures enter the Whitehouse on an unattainable 'I'll get us back on top' campaign. A few presidents later, Americans will probably start to get the picture that they'll never be the 'greatest' again and settle down - Us Brits and the French got used to it but it took Suez to really bring the message home to the people.Originally posted by Capt Dizle
Speculations folks. Get to the facts.
The US is an open, capitalist society with a representative form of government. It has strengths and weaknesses. One of the weaknesses is the total inability to have a national plan. We react; otherwise everything here is about maintaining an environment conducive to the interests of capital investment.
I can't see how we can be considered a threat to go about conquering folks.
If the Iraq mess will serve any useful purpose it has been a needed reminder to a lot of our idiots. The US does not have the ability to impose its will on the world militarily.
Yes, the US will decline economically relative to the rest of the world. But that is not seen as a bad thing to power interests here, more markets and more investment opportunities. Capital interests are only capable of following short-term plans. It is all about the quick buck.
We live in a nuclear age. There will not be anymore WWII type engagements. We live in the time of technological revolution, an information age. As the power of the individual increases across the globe the threat of nationalism recedes. Democracy is loose in the world. Things are not so bad.
Look at it this way, if in all these years we haven't been able to do anything about Cuba, what the hell are the rest of you worried about?Comment
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I don't think the French are used to it. It don't think they even know it yet."The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.Comment
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The US won't use it's military any more because it isn't #1 economically. It will use it the same way it does now. Being #3 won't make a difference.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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Less than a decade after the war they were used to it enough to pool soverignty with the neighbour that had just kicked their ass two times in past half century.Originally posted by Patroklos
I don't think the French are used to it. It don't think they even know it yet.
How long after the US loses its number one status will it take for them to do anything like that?Comment
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Those two wars were harldy when they fell from the top. At the latest it was 1872, and even in that instance of pawnage it took 70 years and two world wars to make them even consider the fact that they might not be that powerful anymoreLess than a decade after the war they were used to it enough to pool soverignty with the neighbour that had just kicked their ass two times in past half century.
There is losing your status, and then there is someone taking it from you.
Do you think anyone is going to take it from America
"The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.Comment
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OK, I take your point but the point still stands that both the British and French had to go through a major psychological adjustment about their decline to secondary powers behind the US and USSR. I also think that Americans wont handle it as well as the Brits and French did.Originally posted by Patroklos
Those two wars were harldy when they fell from the top. At the latest it was 1872, and even in that instance of pawnage it took 70 years and two world wars to make them even consider the fact that they might not be that powerful anymore
There is losing your status, and then there is someone taking it from you.
Do you think anyone is going to take it from America
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I suppose they'll improve their denial skills. You can already see these in action whenever an American says something like 'the EU is going to be mostly Muslim by 2050', or when they pretend that the sluggish economies of France and Germany represent the whole EU. Or any number of silly scenarios where China miraculously implodes.Comment
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Why not? we spent decades trying our hardest to AVOID global power (regional power in the Carib was something else again) We stayed out of euro politics pre-WW1, stayed out of WW1 till near the end, stayed out of the League, tried to hide behind the pacifist idealism of Kellog-Briand, and then tried to hide behind neutrality acts. Even after WW2 there was reluctance on some parts to stay involved in Europe. And again in the 70s, with the Mansfield amendments, there were attempts to withdraw from Europe. (I will try to avoid a local flameware about a particular part of ex-Yugo - but lets just say that US isolationism was alive and well in US discussions on that)Originally posted by Zulu Elephant
OK, I take your point but the point still stands that both the British and French had to go through a major psychological adjustment about their decline to secondary powers behind the US and USSR. I also think that Americans wont handle it as well as the Brits and French did.
Assuming there is SOMEONE who will rise to power (be it another great power, the UN, or just the diffused unconquerable globe) who is as friendly to US interests as the UK was from 1890 to 1945, you should see the US happily turning inward."A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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What would be miraculous about a Chinese economy implosion? The miracle would be if they didn't implode.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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The US has been in relative decline since World War II. The US is some 22% of the world economy and falling.I think the more interesting question is what will happen to American culture/the American consciousness once they begin their relative decline.
That trend could change, of course, even though I don't foresee it.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Trends always change though. This thread started with an assumption that it won't and Dan brought it full circle.Originally posted by DanS
The US has been in relative decline since World War II. The US is some 22% of the world economy and falling.
That trend could change, of course, even though I don't foresee it.
How is that 22% calculated Dan?Comment
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US GDP (PPP) / World GDP (PPP)
Pretty simple to track the decline from 50% at the end of WWII, really.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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