6 mo old infant taken off life support thanks to law signed by Gov. Bush

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by DanS
Most terminal cases are on Medicare, so we can expect these decisions to made in the context of the cost and benefit in dollar terms.

Pure evil.

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by DanS


Did the article mention money? If so, could you quote it?

I didn't have to go to the article as we both already understood this fact.

Originally posted by DanS
In any event, if the government is paying for the care, then you're smoking something if you think they don't have a say about when care should be withdrawn. Most terminal cases are on Medicare, so we can expect these decisions to made in the context of the cost and benefit in dollar terms.

[DanS]

AH: Just describing reality.

[Alexander's Horse]

I know. But if you want to see riots in the streets of Australia, try and introduce that managed care system here.

Interesting how the essence of freedom and liberty are defined in different ways in different countries.

[DanS]

Doesn't the Aussie government pay for most old folks' care? Don't Aussie docs have access to extraordinary measures?

[Sava]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
I know. But if you want to see riots in the streets of Australia, try and introduce that managed care system here.

managed care

Interesting how the essence of freedom and liberty are defined in different ways in different countries.

OH PLEASE do not think DanS's views are representative of America... he belongs to a small, yet politically adept minority who have risen to power. These corporatist scum are powerful, but they will be defeated soon enough.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by DanS
Doesn't the Aussie government pay for most old folks' care?

Yes they do.

Don't Aussie docs have access to extraordinary measures?

No they don't. Cost is never a factor except where doctors have to prioritise who gets treatment.

[DanS]

No they don't.

Hmmm... Well, doctors here in the States have a lot of procedures and drugs to keep people alive. And those tools are expensive. Doctors regularly spend other peoples' fortunes keeping old folks alive.

Cost is never a factor except where doctors have to prioritise who gets treatment.

Are there lots of queues?

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by DanS

Doctors regularly spend other peoples' fortunes keeping old folks alive.

Which is not a problem in a civilised society - as Oliver Wendell Holmes famously said, taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilised society. Of course if you want to live in a Hobbesian or Malthusian society, go right ahead. But you just wait till its your mother or father who needs urgent treatment and see how you feel about the cost equation.

Are there lots of queues?

Not for life saving treatments - its all needs based. There are waiting lists for elective surgery but if you have private insurance you can jump the queue.

[DanS]

Which is not a problem in a civilised society - as Oliver Wendell Holmes famously said, taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilised society. Of course if you want to live in a Hobbesian or Malthusian society, go right ahead. But you just wait till its your mother or father who needs urgent treatment and see how you feel about the cost equation.

Perhaps some context on "fortunes" might be helpful. I mean astronomical sums. Ludicrous amounts.

Take, for instance, heart transplants. In 1998, the cost was over $300,000 in the first year. $40,000 every year thereafter.

This is covered by Medicare.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not prejudging heart transplants to be beyond reasonable care. But that sort of stuff sure does invite sticker shock.

[Alexander's Horse]

Ah well we tackle that in a different way - not all treatments are approved and a judgement is made on efficacy versus need. For some treatments Australians do go to the US and other countries at their own expense because the procedure is not offered here.

[DanS]

What happened to the Hobbesian and Malthusian bit? OWH sure sounds like a man with expensive tastes.

[Alexander's Horse]

Not really - the interesting thing about your health system is there are built in biases towards paying much more than other countries for treatment and drugs.

[DanS]

Why else would Australia not offer heart transplants other than the high cost?

[Alexander's Horse]

Er we offer all kinds of transplants including heart - we were one of the countries that pioneered that.

What we don't offer is mainly cosmetic treatments.