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Originally posted by chegitz guevara
It should be short and sweet.
It should be short and sweet.
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What are you talking about ?Statistical anomaly.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -
I think he's referring to the fact that the proposed constitution is a bloated mess. You can't really expect the voters to have read this constitution and know what it contains in detail. And some of the detail should rightly be considered in side legal agreements, not a constitution.Last edited by DanS; March 19, 2005, 14:13.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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I'm sorry, but this is silly. The constitution is the question, so why bring in irrelevant crap? If you vote down the constitution, you are indeed voting down the constitution as a matter of mechanics.We are not voting No against the constitution, which is quite good considering everything, but against the stupid president of the Commission who is trying to force the Bolkeinstein directiveI came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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447.Originally posted by Odin
200 pages
What you all must realise is that the constitution is a radical simplification of the current maze of treaties and legislative precedents, while still essentially maintaining the status quo. The amount of actual change is minimal. This is not the ideal situation, and who frankly wouldn't want to see a nice clean short constitution without 200 pages of protocols about Kaliningrad and whatnot? It's just never gonna happen with diplomats from 25 countries being involved.Världsstad - Dom lokala genrenas vän
Mick102, 102,3 Umeå, Måndagar 20-21Comment
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which is exactly why Europe will probably not ever be united and will continue to squabble over stupid and irrelevant issues like children fighting over toys...To us, it is the BEAST.Comment
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Voters are not silly; they know perfectly well that the constitutional treaty did not require a referendum, and they use it to express their desagreement on two problems that are very serious for them.Originally posted by DanS
I'm sorry, but this is silly. The constitution is the question, so why bring in irrelevant crap? If you vote down the constitution, you are indeed voting down the constitution as a matter of mechanics.Statistical anomaly.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.Comment
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They should have more radical. How can you expect people to vote intelligently on something that is damn near unintelligable to the layman?What you all must realise is that the constitution is a radical simplification of the current maze of treaties and legislative precedents, while still essentially maintaining the status quo.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Why is the French political class going through such a charade? If the French vote it down, what happens when the Brits and Nederlanders vote it down and the governments feel obliged to honor the expressed wishes of the voters?Voters are not silly; they know perfectly well that the constitutional treaty did not require a referendum, and they use it to express their desagreement on two problems that are very serious for them.
It strikes me as a supremely fvcked up state of political affairs.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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The Brits made the consensus on the constitution extremely difficult, which did not prevent them from campaigning for the rejection.Originally posted by DanS
Why is the French political class going through such a charade? If the French vote it down, what happens when the Brits and Nederlanders vote it down and the governments feel obliged to honor the expressed wishes of the voters?
It strikes me as a supremely fvcked up state of political affairs.
The association of Turquey is largely the result of US influence.
I agree with you that these two points created a supremely fvcked up state of political affairs.
Statistical anomaly.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.Comment
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Which Brits are campaigning for the rejection? The government isn't (i.e., those involved in the negotiations), as far as I know.The Brits made the consensus on the constitution extremely difficult, which did not prevent them from campaigning for the rejection.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Originally posted by DanS
Why is the French political class going through such a charade? If the French vote it down, what happens when the Brits and Nederlanders vote it down and the governments feel obliged to honor the expressed wishes of the voters?
You are evry wrong. If the French vote 'no'then the Government will either go ahead anyway or hold another referendum 6 weeks later, and so on untill a yes. The same with the Netherlands and the UK.eimi men anthropos pollon logon, mikras de sophiasComment
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An american should be the last person to be criticizing how other people vote.Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse
Do It OurselvesComment
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Well, why not? If the gov't keeps running the issue up to a vote until it gets the response it wants, it is no better than being led by the ten year-old gamer who reloads his save points over and over.Originally posted by General Ludd
An american should be the last person to be criticizing how other people vote.
If the French government goes ahead and joins the EU anyway (if the French people vote "no") then that tells us that the issue of political self-determination has no real meaning in Europe. That's a worthwhile bit of knowledge, eh?
If the French vote it down, what happens when the Brits and Nederlanders vote it down and the governments feel obliged to honor the expressed wishes of the voters?
You're making the assumption that all European governments will feel "obliged" to following the wishes of their constituents, Dan.Comment
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If communists and conservatives agree, you know we're right. If DanS and I agree, you know we're right.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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The news have made my whole weekend
An important matter Davout hasn't spoken about is the fact that many people in the mainstream left are now outspoken proponents of the NO. In the past, the leftwing opposition to the constitution was defended by nonmediatic parties such as the far-left, the Communists, and the leftie nationalists.
The mainstream leftwing party (the Socialists) voted to campaign for the constitution at a tiny minority (55% of their members), but the naysayers haven't been silenced
If you add a heavy social climate, and Chirac's willingness to milk some political gain from the issue (a renegociation of the dreadful Bolkenstein directive, and the implosion of the Socialist party), there is a climate that is propicious to the constitution's rejection.
However, it's way too early to celebrate or to gloat. These news have baffled everybody on the yes side. It might be the shock that will actually make them start a serious campaign for the constitution. In particular, they may be more efficient at scaremongering now, and they might be able to mobilize the "silent majority" that will end up voting for the constitution on Referendum Day
There are some dire scenarios which are possible:
- The media barely mentions the left-wing NO, and depict the No-side only as nationalistic and far-righty. I seriously expect this to happen, only to be curbed at the end by the little legal protection of party expression at the end of the campaign.
- The Socialists manage to discipline their NO-proponents, and to silence them.
- Chirac stops raising a stink about the dreadful Bolkestein directive, the media follow, and the issue falls under the radar for the monthes to come.
- The government prevents further social conflicts until the referendum by carfully catering to the union's needs. The lack of strikes will let the social issues fall under the radar. And it is the social issues that will make a difference in the upcoming vote: the Nationalists and the Anti-Turks are pretty much captive NO-voters, like serious lefties. The real decision will come from the mild nationalists and the mild lefties, who'll have to pick between considering the constitution as a "step in the right direction" or a "terrible text".
Tomorrow, I'll be having a joint-reunion with other lefties hostile to the constitution. I guess I'll be doing some activism in the two weeks to come, where I'm still in France
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- DisComment
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