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The US sends suspects to nasty foreign countries to "collect intelligence"

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  • The US sends suspects to nasty foreign countries to "collect intelligence"

    The New York Times (hm, the link requires registration, so I attached the whole thing below):

    WASHINGTON, March 5 - The Bush administration's secret program to transfer suspected terrorists to foreign countries for interrogation has been carried out by the Central Intelligence Agency under broad authority that has allowed it to act without case-by-case approval from the White House or the State or Justice Departments, according to current and former government officials.

    The unusually expansive authority for the C.I.A. to operate independently was provided by the White House under a still-classified directive signed by President Bush within days of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks at the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, the officials said.

    The process, known as rendition, has been central in the government's efforts to disrupt terrorism, but has been bitterly criticized by human rights groups on grounds that the practice has violated the Bush administration's public pledge to provide safeguards against torture.

    In providing a detailed description of the program, a senior United States official said that it had been aimed only at those suspected of knowing about terrorist operations, and emphasized that the C.I.A. had gone to great lengths to ensure that they were detained under humane conditions and not tortured.

    The official would not discuss any legal directive under which the agency operated, but said that the "C.I.A. has existing authorities to lawfully conduct these operations."

    The official declined to be named but agreed to discuss the program to rebut the assertions that the United States used the program to secretly send people to other countries for the purpose of torture. The transfers were portrayed as an alternative to what American officials have said is the costly, manpower-intensive process of housing them in the United States or in American-run facilities in other countries.

    In recent weeks, several former detainees have described being subjected to coercive interrogation techniques and brutal treatment during months spent in detention under the program in Egypt and other countries. The official would not discuss specific cases, but did not dispute that there had been instances in which prisoners were mistreated. The official said none had died.

    The official said the C.I.A.'s inspector general was reviewing the rendition program as one of at least a half-dozen inquiries within the agency of possible misconduct involving the detention, interrogation and rendition of suspected terrorists.

    In public, the Bush administration has refused to confirm that the rendition program exists, saying only in response to questions about it that the United States did not hand over people to face torture. The official refused to say how many prisoners had been transferred as part of the program. But former government officials say that since the Sept. 11 attacks, the C.I.A. has flown 100 to 150 suspected terrorists from one foreign country to another, including to Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Pakistan.

    Each of those countries has been identified by the State Department as habitually using torture in its prisons. But the official said that guidelines enforced within the C.I.A. require that no transfer take place before the receiving country provides assurances that the prisoner will be treated humanely, and that United States personnel are assigned to monitor compliance.

    "We get assurances, we check on those assurances, and we double-check on these assurances to make sure that people are being handled properly in respect to human rights," the official said. The official said that compliance had been "very high" but added, "Nothing is 100 percent unless we're sitting there staring at them 24 hours a day."

    It has long been known that the C.I.A. has held a small group of high-ranking leaders of Al Qaeda in secret sites overseas, and that the United States military continues to detain hundreds of suspected terrorists at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, and in Afghanistan. The rendition program was intended to augment those operations, according to former government officials, by allowing the United States to gain intelligence from the interrogations of the prisoners, most of whom were sent to their countries of birth or citizenship.
    [emphasis added]

    Nice places to send your suspects, Mr Bush.
    (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
    (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
    (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

  • #2
    Previous thread - Feb. 11, 2005:
    The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.

    The Weighted Companion Cube is cheating on you, that slut.

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    • #3
      old old old old news, still very ****ed up though.
      Stop Quoting Ben

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      • #4
        Nice places to send your suspects, Mr Bush.


        If only we were fighting Falun Gong. The PRC is probably way better at torturing people than these amateurs...
        KH FOR OWNER!
        ASHER FOR CEO!!
        GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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        • #5
          No one should ever be tortured but at the same time we should be sending people back to their country of origin. The article says 100-150 people have been repatriated since the war on terrorism started in 2001. That's only a few dozen people per year being repatriated.
          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Oerdin
            No one should ever be tortured but at the same time we should be sending people back to their country of origin. The article says 100-150 people have been repatriated since the war on terrorism started in 2001. That's only a few dozen people per year being repatriated.
            Which includes sending at least one person to Syria to be tortured who had been naturalized in another country and renounced his Syrian citizenship, which is sick sick sick.
            Stop Quoting Ben

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            • #7
              Drake beat me to it. However:
              Which includes sending at least one person to Syria to be tortured who had been naturalized in another country and renounced his Syrian citizenship
              He had never renounced his Syrian citizenship, Boshko.
              I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
              For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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              • #8
                As far s I know he was a duel national between Canada and Syria. If the goal is to protect the US, instead of to let him try again, then he should be sent as far away from our borders as possible. It sucks he was abused but he was a Syrian citizen who was sent home to Syria.
                Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                • #9
                  Islamic terrorists advocate killing civilians in order to promote the establishment of an authoritarian government. They get caught and sent back to their native authoritarian government. Then, they complain when tortured by their authoritarian government. Sounds like poetic justice to me.
                  “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

                  ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

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                  • #10
                    If the goal is to protect the US, instead of to let him try again, then he should be sent as far away from our borders as possible.


                    Even if the only thing he did wrong was to have a Muslim last name?
                    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                      If the goal is to protect the US, instead of to let him try again, then he should be sent as far away from our borders as possible.


                      Even if the only thing he did wrong was to have a Muslim last name?
                      Yes. We need to make room for all the hard working Mexicans.
                      “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

                      ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

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                      • #12
                        If only we were fighting Falun Gong. The PRC is probably way better at torturing people than these amateurs...
                        Really, now, you should know better than to think that ad hominem attacks are effective counterarguments.

                        Islamic terrorists advocate killing civilians in order to promote the establishment of an authoritarian government. They get caught and sent back to their native authoritarian government. Then, they complain when tortured by their authoritarian government. Sounds like poetic justice to me.
                        First, torture is never the answer. If they are guilty, then they should be held responsible, and suffer the full weight of the law (including the death penalty). The only thing that torture does, even torture by extraordinary rendition, is to diminish the legitimacy of US actions. [For instance, we did not ratify the world court because Bush was afraid that American soldiers would be tried for warcrimes for political reasons. Who knew that a couple years later, US troops would be committing war crimes?]
                        But, leaving aside the issue of whether terrorists should be tortured, how do we know that these people are terrorists. Let's face it, the justice department has been very ineffective at bringing charges against people we claim are terrorists, which leads me to believe that maybe the evidence is less rock-solid then they would have us believe. I would be surprised if everyone we're extraditing is guilty, and the torturing of innocents, no matter what the excuse, is fundamentally wrong.
                        "Remember, there's good stuff in American culture, too. It's just that by "good stuff" we mean "attacking the French," and Germany's been doing that for ages now, so, well, where does that leave us?" - Elok

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                        • #13
                          (including the death penalty)
                          Why mention this? What is so special about the death penalty that you would mention it, and makes anti-DP but pro-Justice (in the sense of responsibility, weight of the law and trial by evidence) weaker than pro-DP arguments here?
                          "I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
                          "You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:

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                          • #14
                            Really, now, you should know better than to think that ad hominem attacks are effective counterarguments.


                            Counterarguments are wasted on UR and his ilk...
                            KH FOR OWNER!
                            ASHER FOR CEO!!
                            GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                            • #15
                              No-one expects the American Inquisition!

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