Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Honor killings.....

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Honor killings.....

    For those who don't know what I mean, here's a quite long article about it:

    "The Whore Lived Like a German"

    Summary: Muslim women that live in Germany, but try to break out of the traditional family background are for some only moving targets, since there male relatives could decide they deserve to die for things like having a boyfriend, or having even sex with him before marriage. Or for doing other things girls normally do.

    And yes, I know it is a generalization, and fortunately it doesn't go like this for all of them - but this isn't the point here. Furthermore, I haven't made this thread to bash Turkey, or Muslims in general, or to discuss the Turkey-Eu thing once again. /pc stuff end

    Here I'd like to discuss what in your opinion good measures would be to stop that. In another article about it, those suggestions are made:

    1. Requiring immigrants to take classes on human rights and women's rights beginning as early as grade school.
    2. Strengthening the laws regarding women brought from Turkey and Muslim countries as young brides. For instance, say some, the women should be at least 18. And they should be forced to take language classes upon arrival.
    3. Forbidding arranged marriages and including a means to prosecute parents who force their children to marry against their will.
    4. Breaking up the Turkish-Muslim "ghettos."
    5. Creating more programs for Turkish youths.
    6. Creating a larger network for women in need.
    7. Controlling what gets taught in Quran schools.
    8. Aggressively campaigning against violence in Muslim families.
    9. Creating job training programs and job opportunities for Turkish women.
    As you'd expect from those Germans, there's a lot of restrictions and forbidding. But of course, most of this will hardly be done in praxis, and some of those other ideas might actually be useful..... I also vaguely remember reading about similar cases in other countries....anyway....thoughts, flames, ideas?
    Blah

  • #2
    Yeah, honour killings are very worrying and distasteful. They are not limited to Germany either. I follow the Guardian, and there are instances in the UK and other countries.

    Fundamentally, we must all have the freedom and the opportunity to live our own lives as we see fit. To let any culture run roughshod over the rights of the individual is reprehensible and blood-chilling. The life of a sentient being is sacred. To wound one in the name of an abstract concept like a code of morals is criminal and destructive.

    There is a reason why the GLBT rights movement specifically has rallied behind this death. The right of homosexuals to engage in consensual, non-coercive behaviour have long been violated with violence, imprisonment, and intolerable pressure. That is the same predicament that faces women in socially conservative families. The right to control their own lives is denied in a tragic betrayal by the exact people who should be supporting them the most.
    Blog | Civ2 Scenario League | leo.petr at gmail.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by St Leo
      The right to control their own lives is denied in a tragic betrayal by the exact people who should be supporting them the most.
      The saddest part of all.

      Good post Leo.
      "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
      "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

      Comment


      • #4
        Forbidding arranged marriages and including a means to prosecute parents who force their children to marry against their will.


        How is this going to be done? The bride and groom can just say that they want to be married and how will anyone know that the parents have arranged the marriage?
        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

        Comment


        • #5
          These measures are good ones, it seems to me.

          4. Breaking up the Turkish-Muslim "ghettos."
          Yes, the point is to integrate them in german society. I think we got it all wrong here in Canada. I don't know if you knew this, they instaured charia in Ontario. Worst idea ever. Ironically, the woman who gave it the green light, she's a feminist. I guess political correctness got the better of her.
          Let us be lazy in everything, except in loving and drinking, except in being lazy – Lessing

          Comment


          • #6
            Generally, I think immigrants should be asked a few simple questions like:

            - what would You do it your sister/daughter/wife/mother (...)?
            - what do You think should happen to an apostate or biasphemer?
            - do You think shari'a should be taken as a law?
            - do You think democracy is good?
            - what's your opinion on gay rights?
            - do You think (insert a country) is a decadent disgusting place that should be punished for its sins?
            - do You think topless sunbathing should be banned (now, we don't want such people in our states, don't we? )

            etc
            "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
            I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
            Middle East!

            Comment


            • #7
              But I don't see a way to "break the ghettos". How do You want to do this without restricting the rights of the Turkish/Muslim minority?
              "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
              I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
              Middle East!

              Comment


              • #8
                How is this going to be done? The bride and groom can just say that they want to be married and how will anyone know that the parents have arranged the marriage?
                Exactly. Government officials can be incredibly naive sometimes. They said the same thing about the charia in Ontario: its supposedly volontary. But they don't understand the pressure muslim women have to put up with. Most women won't have the choice.
                Let us be lazy in everything, except in loving and drinking, except in being lazy – Lessing

                Comment


                • #9
                  But I don't see a way to "break the ghettos". How do You want to do this without restricting the rights of the Turkish/Muslim minority?
                  I think France has the best policy on these matters. However, some have pointed out that France's policy is too harsh, that it actually forces minorities to excludes themselves in ghettos. If my daughter can't wear the chador in school, we'll create our own private schools. I don't know if that's actually the case in France. But the tolerant, politically correct policy they have in Canada and the UK doesn't seem to be a better way to favorise integration. For example, we now have muslim-only timeslots in public swiming pools. I'm pretty sure that the muslim women who decide to go in the normal timeslots are treated like sluts.
                  Let us be lazy in everything, except in loving and drinking, except in being lazy – Lessing

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You have Muslim-only timeslots in public swimming pools?

                    Do they have to present a certificate of islamicity to get entrance, or what?

                    Edit: Idiot error corrected.
                    Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

                    It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
                    The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Last Conformist
                      You have Muslim-only timeslots in public swimming pools?
                      I see Canada is ruled by social democrats too
                      The enemy cannot push a button if you disable his hand.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You're implying we do too? If so, I've honestly missed it. Last I was at the public bath here, the only segregated slots were men/women only slots for Roman baths, but that's two years ago.
                        Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

                        It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
                        The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I would be very surprised if we don't get similar policies here as well soon
                          The enemy cannot push a button if you disable his hand.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            BeBro, ever noticed there's a praying area with praying rugs in the StaBi?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              What's StaBi?

                              And yes, I think Muslim-only time-slots for public swimming-pools are a very bad idea.
                              "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
                              I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
                              Middle East!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X