Israeli conscientious objector in prison

[Mr. Harley]

Azazel, not knowing all the intricasies of Isreali politics/labels, I did a google search.

https://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Culture/4805.htm

Trimbobler and Amir (sic : the assassin), who are both Orthodox Jews, insist they were married secretly over the phone by a rabbi last year.

Since I remember him also being labeled as right-wing, forgive the error of labeling him ultra-Orthodox, vs Ultranationist Orthodox. From outside Israel the distinction seems minor, as he is Orthodox and claims Yaweh's giving Jews dominion ove the land? I will retract ultra-Orthodox for Orthodox fanatic. Interestingly, that label could be argued to include even more Israeli's (note - I did not say all, or even a majority. I said more).

[Az]

And you know for a fact how much he does for his society? We already had your mean-spirited assumption that he just sits on his ass playing video games all day.

Nothing mean-spirited. Siro was simply expressing his envy of him.

Since I remember him also being labeled as right-wing, forgive the error of labeling him ultra-Orthodox, vs Ultranationist Orthodox. From outside Israel the distinction seems minor, as he is Orthodox and claims Yaweh's giving Jews dominion ove the land? I will retract ultra-Orthodox for Orthodox fanatic. Interestingly, that label could be argued to include even more Israeli's (note - I did not say all, or even a majority. I said more).

Nah, it doesn't work like this: analyzing theology is the biggest mistake you can make with this.

The utra-orthodox are basically a somewhat altered transplant of the deeply religious parts of european jewry from the 18th century, equiped with several high-tech components, and parts of modern life. Certain parts of them are deeply anti-zionist, and some are cynical or express contempt for the general society in Israel.

The religious right are completely different. Their map of spiritual authority is much less organized. They are the driving force behind the majority of the settlement thrust, they are deeply nationalistic, and they do serve in the army. In fact, some might say that too many of them serve in the army. . Lately, esp. in the fringe, a chasm is beginning to open between them, and the mainstream Israeli society, on the grounds of the disengagement and uprooting plan (which even I am personally not thrilled about, to put it very mildly ) .

They do enjoy certain connections to the ultraorthodox, but they enjoy certain connections to the secular settlers of the "workers' settlement" movement ( ), so that hardly says anything.

[Asher]

Israel is a ****hole of a country. No one sane would want to live there.

[Zoid]

But it is the promised land, given to the jews by God himself. seems a bit wrong to turn it down IMO.

[Az]

Israel is a ****hole of a country. No one sane would want to live there.

8.2/10

It's quite amazing how safe our country is, really. our traffic deaths per 100k people stands at 7.58 per year, our murders rate stands at 2.49 per 100k people per year. even if to count terrorist acts (1.5 per 100k people per year), the violent deaths rate is much better than the USA for example.

[Asher]

But not as good as Canada.

[Eli]

Canada is boring.

[Asher]

Nothing is more boring than hearing about another suicide bombing in Israel every other day.

[Az]

But it's pretty close. and well, canada isn't the best , either. Doesn't make it a ****hole (?). Also, check out the number on GDP per worker.

[Asher]

Parts of Canada are indeed ****holes.

[Az]

Parts of Israel are indeed ****holes as well. Every place has it's ****holes, but that makes for a boring discussion.

[Asher]

"parts of"?

Conscription makes the whole place a ****hole.

Freedom.

[Az]

bleh. Everyone knows that you could easily avoid the army if you wanted to ( sadly. I woudn't allow it. ).


Freedom is such a vague term. I don't feel like I am being coherced into the army. In many cases, the experience, and experiences are unrivaled.

[Mr. Harley]

That's why I changed it to Orthodox fanatic - he is a self-described Orthodox, and definitely a fanatic. I make the mistake of assuming that a right-wing Orthodox fanatic was ultra-Orthodox, most of our extreme Christian fundamentalists (i.e. impose Christian laws, criminalize/hospitalize gays, etc.) here in the US are both fanatic, fundamentalist (occupying a similiart extreme literal interpretation of religious texts) and right wing, and I made the error of a false analogy. Since I do know the finer points of the terminology, to borrow from the younger folks - me bad.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Edan

Uh, you do realize that Israeli Muslims are not forced to serve, either, right?

Not that Orthodox are any more "chosen", nor is "chosen" meant to be indicate as a sign of being better or given more rights.

Can Arabs serve in the Israeli military?