Has the happy little boat of Canada sprung a leak?

[Agathon]

Under the Canadian confederation, my understanding is that any province has the right to opt out and go their own way.

In short: no.

[Krill]

How would you stop it? With that army that you have no use for?

[General Ludd]

Leting provinces, regions, and people secede.

Them join the US afterwards... suckers.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Agathon
But this is all BS anyway, because NYE represents the lunatic fringe of Albertan opinion on this matter.

You have a very queer memory.

You said 'get rid of federalism'.

I said 4 or 5 provinces would have none of it.

You said Quebec might be a problem, but none of the rest would have any choice.

I said something stupid about American tanks to emphasize that we do have a choice. It was a stupid comment in reply to stupid comments, but now you want to forget about your stupid comments.

As for what the opinions of Alberta, or the rest of Canada are, I hardly think a Marxist teacher's assistant at the University of Toronto whose been here all of, what, 4 years? has a very firm grasp of the views of very many Canadians.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Agathon
Needless to say, Alberta cannot unilaterally secede from Canada (not even Quebec can), and even it it attempted to, the diplomatic price the US would pay with its biggest trading partner and its allies would be too great. It's about as realistic as Vermont joining Canada.

Then what is the use of paying the frenchies off to stay in if they can't simply leave? (if that is what is being done)

Here you said

That's because there is a serious separatist threat.

And now your saying that they can't really do this. Either they are a serious separatist threat or like Alberta they can't unilaterally secede in which case treat them like every other provence. Seems rather simply doesn't it.

[joncha]

Originally posted by notyoueither


You have a very queer memory.

You said 'get rid of federalism'.

I said 4 or 5 provinces would have none of it.

You said Quebec might be a problem, but none of the rest would have any choice.

I said something stupid about American tanks to emphasize that we do have a choice. It was a stupid comment in reply to stupid comments, but now you want to forget about your stupid comments.

As for what the opinions of Alberta, or the rest of Canada are, I hardly think a Marxist teacher's assistant at the University of Toronto whose been here all of, what, 4 years? has a very firm grasp of the views of very many Canadians.

I love Canadian politics OT threads.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Krill
How would you stop it? With that army that you have no use for?

He wouldn't. He doesn't know what he's talking about, but he's a professional blatherer so he feels he has to say something on a topic he knows next to nothing about.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by joncha


I love Canadian politics OT threads.

[Agathon]

Get a clue. Quebec cannot legally separate. No province can (there is nothing in the law that requires the Federal government to recognize a separatist referendum as binding). But support for it there could easily increase back to previous levels. Then you have a real problem on your hands if they win a referendum. Such a referendum doesn't give them the right to separate, but it might make it inevitable. Imposing the Anglo Federal government on Quebec would be nuclear compared to doing it to other provinces due to the fact that they are French.

That won't happen in Alberta, where separatism is a fringe phenomenon.

NYE said that American tanks would appear in Alberta if the Canadian Federal government attempted to get rid of provincial governments or curtail their power. I said that's really funny.

I still think it is a hoot.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Jon: Aren't you Canadian?

I wish I was

Jon Miller

[Agathon]

As for what the opinions of Alberta, or the rest of Canada are, I hardly think a Marxist teacher's assistant at the University of Toronto whose been here all of, what, 4 years? has a very firm grasp of the views of very many Canadians.

Whatever. Your opinions are the usual reactionary ignorant crap. Like your constant militarist paranoia for instance.

I've lived here long enough to realize that western whining is effectively meaningless.

In fact, you'd only have to holiday here for two weeks to realize that, which makes it even more amazing that some folk out west still don't get it.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Sprayber


Then what is the use of paying the frenchies off to stay in if they can't simply leave? (if that is what is being done)

And now your saying that they can't really do this. Either they are a serious separatist threat or like Alberta they can't unilaterally secede in which case treat them like every other provence. Seems rather simply doesn't it.

well its not that simple.

My recollection ( I could very well be wrong here) is that the Canadian constitution is silent on the whole topic of separation of a province. It doesn't say it is allowed and it doesn't say it is not allowed. It is not even contemplated as an issue, so nobody has any idea how separation would work in practice.

Now there is a reality that even if the constitution says something could not be done, that does not mean it cannot be done. Constitutions can be amended and they are sometimes ignored.

Many Canadians seem to feel that if enough people in a province wanted to leave then, well, they should be allowed to go. After all, Canada is not based on the idea of forcing huge chunks of people being part of something they don't want ( although tehre are questions as to the land a province should take with them if they separated-- ie the aboriginals in northern Quebec want no part of a separate Quebec and people have talked about their separation from Quebec if the issue arose). Now in Quebec there is a significant minority that are Quebec nationalists and who support separation regardless of the the circumstances. They are big enough a group that the issue will never go away. But the reality is that unless some issue galvanizes the rest of the population, its unlikely that separation would EVER have the support of more than half the population there. Even fuzzy questions talking about greater Quebec sovereignty have never quite gotten to the 1/2 mark

As to the Canadian army . . . even if it were the best military force in the world, how exactly do you stop the peaceful separation of a province?? Do you shoot citizens? Do you arrest the premier and if so on what charge??

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


I wish I was

Jon Miller

No one is holding you back. If you really wished it then find a way to move.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Sprayber


No one is holding you back. If you really wished it then find a way to move.

He'd still be american. There's unfortunetly no way to fix poor breeding.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by General Ludd



He'd still be american. There's unfortunetly no way to fix poor breeding.

You demonstrate that time and time again