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Tennessee judge forcing immigrant mothers to learn English!

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Adagio


    That would be "too late"... making them learn english now makes it easier to learn other things at school. If you start going to some english school without understanding english at all you will quickly get far behind the others in class

    So can we make it mandatory for them to give their kids educational toys?

    Look, we've got mandatory education for kids from 1st grade or Kindergarten (?) If we want mandatory education earlier, well lets mandate that and fund it.

    I doubt that ESL (engiish as a second language) is as big a drain on resources for kids coming to Kindergarten with no English, as it is for new immigrant kids coming in at later ages with no English.

    OTOH, intense English education for new immigrants would be a good idea. But hardly needs to be mandatory - build it, they will come.
    "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Ramo
      You do realize that people who can only speak obscure languages no one can translate are very unlikely to be the sole witness to a murder, right? Furthermore, you realize that a person who is forced to learn English could get discouraged and has to move back to his/her home country (leaving no witnesses to the murder!), right?
      It doesn't have to be that obscure. Just try to have someone from China move to some small town in DK where nobody is around who understands chineese (AND speaks english or danish)... Here where I live there are very few around who both speaks chinese and danish/english
      This space is empty... or is it?

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
        What if this foreign guy moves to some place where there's nobody else who speaks his language? Then the mentioned situation could happen


        So what? He's allowed to speak what he wants to speak.
        Would you think the same if you are the person who's about to go to death row for a murder you didn't commit, knowing that this guy who have lived as your neighbor for 20+ years doesn't understand english is the only who can get you out, but he's not able to do it because he can't communicate with anyone?
        This space is empty... or is it?

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        • #49
          It doesn't have to be that obscure.


          The point is that such a situation is insanely unlikely.

          Just try to have someone from China move to some small town in DK where nobody is around who understands chineese (AND speaks english or danish)... Here where I live there are very few around who both speaks chinese and danish/english


          Then they can find a translator in Copenhagen if this absurdly unlikely situation happens.
          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
          -Bokonon

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          • #50
            In Copenhagen yes, here no!
            This space is empty... or is it?

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            • #51
              Would you think the same if you are the person who's about to go to death row for a murder you didn't commit, knowing that this guy who have lived as your neighbor for 20+ years doesn't understand english is the only who can get you out, but he's not able to do it because he can't communicate with anyone?


              So what? He's allowed to speak what he wants to speak.


              And are you telling me there are no translators around? And what do I know he saw if I can't ask him?
              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
                What next, suggesting 3 square meals?

                Oh the humanity!
                I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                • #53
                  In Copenhagen yes, here no!


                  Then this witness of yours who's in your small town who can only speak a language for which there exists absolutely no community (what, exactly, is he doing there, I wonder? how does he work?) can find a frickin Mandarin speaker in Copenhagen.
                  "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                  -Bokonon

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Ramo

                    Furthermore, you realize that a person who is forced to learn English could get discouraged and has to move back to his/her home country (leaving no witnesses to the murder!), right?
                    That would be bad how?
                    Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

                    It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
                    The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Kuciwalker
                      So? It prevents them from preventing you from saying certain things - it doesn't say they can't make you also say certain other thing
                      Actually it does.
                      Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                      • #56
                        AFAIK there's no translaters around this place who can most languages in the world (that is in several translators, not just one)

                        But the thing is I don't see WHY you should even use translators for people who have lived in some foregn country for 20+ years.
                        Why did they move to a foreign place if they don't want to try to learn to be able to communicate with the locals... they should at least try to learn it
                        I don't like the fact that 25% (or probably more) of foreigners who have lived in this city for 20+ years haven't even tried to learn danish.
                        Because they can't understand danish (or english) they're not able to get a job and if they can't get a job it's the government who has to give them money so they can live, and as you all know it's the taxes we pay that goes to this. I don't see no reason why I should pay money to someone so he/she can live, but wont even try to make it possible to get a job so he/she can pay it back some day
                        This space is empty... or is it?

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Last Conformist

                          That would be bad how?
                          Beats me. Maybe Ramo likes people living in ghettos.
                          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Ramo
                            what, exactly, is he doing there, I wonder?
                            I'm wondering the same thing

                            Originally posted by Ramo
                            how does he work?
                            He doesn't
                            This space is empty... or is it?

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                            • #59
                              In the U.S., it's a time honored tradition of 0-gen immigrants to not be able to speak English, while their children can speak both languages, because they learn English at school. It's much easier for children to learn new languages than for children to do so. The mohter doesn't need to learn English, her kid will learn it at school and be able to speak both as an adult.
                              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Adagio
                                AFAIK there's no translaters around this place who can most languages in the world (that is in several translators, not just one)

                                But the thing is I don't see WHY you should even use translators for people who have lived in some foregn country for 20+ years.
                                Why did they move to a foreign place if they don't want to try to learn to be able to communicate with the locals... they should at least try to learn it
                                I don't like the fact that 25% (or probably more) of foreigners who have lived in this city for 20+ years haven't even tried to learn danish.
                                Because they can't understand danish (or english) they're not able to get a job and if they can't get a job it's the government who has to give them money so they can live, and as you all know it's the taxes we pay that goes to this. I don't see no reason why I should pay money to someone so he/she can live, but wont even try to make it possible to get a job so he/she can pay it back some day

                                My father in law, may he rest in peace, was never really even conversational in English, much less fluent. AFAIK he supported his family from his work from the time he arrived till he retired. He came to the US in order to be safe from the dangers his family faced in eastern europe circa 1956, and to have a better future. Of his seven children, 5 are quite fluent in English, and the other are two are conversational. All the males are employed, and the two daughters have been at various points, and their husbands are. Id say my father in law achieved his goal.
                                "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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