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  • #76
    Bah. You lack imagination.

    The point is that if something were truly necessary for human existence, we could beat a path to where it exists, if we don't have enough of it.

    In the case of oil, we would just switch to nuke power well before we needed additional oil that much.
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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    • #77
      yeah ok, thats a bit of a stretch dont you think? because you need life for oil.
      That's why I can guarantee that he cannot know. We don't know the prevalence of life in our solar system, let alone galaxy or universe.

      I could not have guaranteed it for many resources, btw.
      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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      • #78
        'IN our present era' all of that hypothetical oil will be of no use to us anyway, so you make a moot, but amusing, point re galactic reserves.
        One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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        • #79
          ...as is the handwringing for our existence without all of these resources. People will say that we have x years of supply of oil left, which elicits one big yawn from me. We'll just use different things.
          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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          • #80
            Originally posted by DanS
            And there are some 400 billion star systems (+/- 200 billion star systems) in our galaxy alone.
            They may as well not exist if FtL isn't feasable.
            Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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            • #81
              Originally posted by DanS
              ...as is the handwringing for our existence without all of these resources. People will say that we have x years of supply of oil left, which elicits one big yawn from me. We'll just use different things.
              That we will, but then that was never my point of contention.
              One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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              • #82
                But with our current technology, every part of our solar system is within striking distance for resources that are truly necessary. No Buck Rogers technology required.
                and i disagree with this too. none of todays shuttles can even make it to the moon. we use 20 million barrels a day, theres no way we can transport that much from another plante to the US at less than $50 a barrel, and at anywhere near the quantity to supply even just america.
                "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

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                • #83
                  but then that was never my point of contention
                  What exactly was your point of contention?
                  I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                  Comment

                  • #84
                    and i disagree with this too. none of todays shuttles can even make it to the moon. we use 20 million barrels a day, theres no way we can transport that much from another plante to the US at less than $50 a barrel, and at anywhere near the quantity to supply even just america.
                    I never said that it would make sense to do this as an economic matter, only that it could be done, if absolutely necessary.

                    Right now, Hall effect and ion thrusters powered by fission reactors have pretty extreme fuel efficiency -- more than 10x the effeciency of chemical propulsion methods. They take a long while to accelerate and decelerate, but are effective.
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                    Comment

                    • #85
                      I never said that it would make sense to do this as an economic matter, only that it could be done, if absolutely necessary.
                      no, not even then. we couldnt get 20 million barrels a day from somewhere else. not even 10 million barrels with the tech that we have now.

                      , Hall effect and ion thrusters powered by fission reactors have pretty extreme fuel efficiency -- more than 10x the effeciency of chemical propulsion methods. They take a long while to accelerate and decelerate, but are effective.
                      and on what spaceship are these guys on?
                      "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

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                      • #86
                        and on what spaceship are these guys on?
                        On most new commercial satellites. The tech for HETs has been in use for about 30 - 35 years.

                        we couldnt get 20 million barrels a day from somewhere else. not even 10 million barrels with the tech that we have now.
                        If it were on an asteroid and we were patient, sure we could. Not sure why we would want to, but...
                        Last edited by DanS; February 26, 2005, 20:17.
                        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                        Comment

                        • #87
                          If it were on Mars, sure we could. Not sure why we would want to, but...

                          theres no way. theres what, 40 gallons of oil per barrel? water is 8.3 lbs/ gallon, lets estimate oil = 10 lbs/ gallon. 10 million barrels a day, that makes out to be 4 billion lbs. 2200 lbs per ton, thats 1818181 tons of goods. todays spaceshuttles carry 10 tons of goods up. thats 181,819 spaceshuttle trips per day.

                          on top of that you need facilities on both ends for launching/ landing.

                          If it were on Mars, sure we could. Not sure why we would want to, but...

                          dont change your argument now. you said there are infinite amount of resources, and there will be some on the planets, and since we can easily get to them, thats why we will go there, and get it, and that its not inconcievable.

                          well it is. weve got finite resources.
                          "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

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                          • #88
                            Oil's lighter than water, hence the floating.
                            Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                            • #89
                              If it were on an asteroid and we were patient, sure we could
                              10 million a day? theres no asteroid big enough and close enough.
                              "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

                              Comment

                              • #90
                                I didn't use the word "easily," but it's not inconceivable.

                                theres what, 40 gallons of oil per barrel? water is 8.3 lbs/ gallon, lets estimate oil = 10 lbs/ gallon. 10 million barrels a day, that makes out to be 4 billion lbs. 2200 lbs per ton, thats 1818181 tons of goods. todays spaceshuttles carry 10 tons of goods up. thats 181,819 spaceshuttle trips per day.
                                You really are going to argue this?

                                Forget the spaceshuttles. Mars has a gravity well a fraction of Earth's. We don't even need rigid spaceships upon launch. We have an atmosphere to slow the spaceship down on Earth entry. Only a small ablative heat shield is required.

                                I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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