India's population expected to pass China's by 2030

[GePap]

Potable water is most areas is a very slow resource to replenish.

You think human beings can go on growing economically for ever, do you DanS?

Please explain then the conditions of agriculture in the "fertile crescent"- the fact that large swaths of its are desert, or too salty for things to grow well is a result of 9000 years of Human use, and with nunbers far smaller than any we have today.

We may get more energy as lonmg as we want, but water and soil quality are things easily lost and regained with great difficulty.

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by DanS

The trap you're falling into is thinking that the amount of resources is finite. In our era, this is decidedly not the case.

But that leads us to finding other ways to distribute those resources, and I know that you, of all people, do not want to go in that direction. And neither will I for that matter.

Asmodean

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DanS
The trap you're falling into is thinking that the amount of resources is finite. In our era, this is decidedly not the case.

Yup, you're insane.

[DanS]

Please explain then the conditions of agriculture in the "fertile crescent"- the fact that large swaths of its are desert, or too salty for things to grow well is a result of 9000 years of Human use, and with nunbers far smaller than any we have today.

It's ridiculous to compare ancient societies to ours. In most part, we can see what's happening and make corrections. If we overshoot the mark without making corrections, we can diversify to resources in other areas while we remediate.

But in any event, agriculture is some 1% of our economy, while it was a majority of the economy in ancient times in all countries.

[DanS]

But that leads us to finding other ways to distribute those resources, and I know that you, of all people, do not want to go in that direction. And neither will I for that matter.

This post doesn't make any sense.

[:) Smiley]

Originally posted by DanS
It's ridiculous to compare ancient societies to ours. In most part, we can see what's happening and make corrections. If we overshoot the mark without making corrections, we can diversify to resources in other areas while we remediate.

So you support centralized economic planning now?

[GePap]

Originally posted by DanS
It's ridiculous to compare ancient societies to ours. In most part, we can see what's happening and make corrections. If we overshoot the mark without making corrections, we can diversify to resources in other areas while we remediate.

Excuse me Dan, but some of these problems HAVE NO CORRECTIONS, specially using water from aquifers-there is no way to replenish that water in less than a few centuries. The Us is a modern, rich state, yet soild degredation is increasing in many parts of the country, due to simple biology, and the demands of commercial farming.

But in any event, agriculture is some 1% of our economy, while it was a majority of the economy in ancient times in all countries.

And yet, our eocnomy is mo much fantasitcally bigger that the effect of our agriculture is still much more significant in those areas we still farm.

That said, huge overconsumption by Americans means we could cut back and still live fine, healthy lives, but then that would limit profist, now wouldn't it?

[DanS]

So you support centralized economic planning now?

You and Asmodean are spoiling for a commie/capitalist debate. This discussion would add nothing of worth to this thread.

[DanS]

there is no way to replenish that water in less than a few centuries

Big deal. So we will use huge desalinization plants instead. Sure, it will be a little more expensive, but this hardly makes water a finite resource.

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by DanS


This post doesn't make any sense.

I'll explain myself then.

You stated the resources aren't finite. However there are still problems with poverty in countries traditionally viewed as overpopulated. Therefore a logical conclusion would be to find other ways to distribute those resources - e.g. socialism.

I just meant that neither you nor I want that road taken.

Asmodean

[GePap]

Originally posted by DanS


Big deal. So we will use huge desalinization plants instead. Sure, it will be a little more expensive, but this hardly makes water a finite resource.

Yes, lets ship tens of billions of gallons of desalinated water half accross a continent to the places we grow food in, a minor inconvinience at best really....

You know Dan, may I add you innitial notiuon, that Malthus has been proven wrong all the time is, well wrong. Just ask the inhabitants of Easter Island about the notion of overdevelopment.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Yup, you're insane.

You didn't already know this?

[DanS]

You stated the resources aren't finite. However there are still problems with poverty in countries traditionally viewed as overpopulated. Therefore a logical conclusion would be to find other ways to distribute those resources - e.g. socialism.

This is a non-sequiter as far as this discussion goes. Poverty is only a part of the discussion inasmuch as it gives people incentives to move to the cities in search of work.

[Odin]

Originally posted by DanS

Yes, I think we can grow forever. Malthus has been irrelevant for about 2 centuries. Maybe a century and a half in the US.

Malthis is irrelavent? Not when we are f*cking up the enviroment at a frightening pace

City-folk have a warped view of what is going on.

BS. I am from a rural area and I am appalled that there is less than 1% of the original tallgrass prairie, and not a damn thing can be done about it because farmers have a lot of political power via the Senate, and the majority vote Republican.

[DanS]

Photo: Shanghai subway station at rush hour. Try asking these folks if China would benefit from more people.

It's all a matter of interpretation. I see a mass of people traveling in a relatively efficient, cost-effective, environmentally sound, convenient, safe manner. Compare to Washington, D.C. rush-hour traffic and this picture of Shanghai looks like heaven. You could take a picture of mass road-rage on the Beltway.

Adding more stations, more trains, or more tracks is quite doable.