Missile Defence: Canada says "No way!!"

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Why? We seem to revel in our politicians and civil servants insulting them.

What's the matter? Don't like abrasive diplomacy when it's not us being abrasive?

DanS'd

Examples?

I can think of 2. And they certainly weren't the current Minister of FA or our ambassador to the US...

[KrazyHorse]

I don't seem to recall our PM abruptly calling off dinners every time they did something like invade Iraq...

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

Exactly.

Maybe they'll get the impression that they're pushing a bit too hard. If somebody pisses on your rug you don't just give them another drink.

Or maybe they'll get the impression that Canada is no friend, and that we deserve no favours.

Hmmm... Auto pacts, Arctic sovereignty, mad cows...

Do we really want to have a ***** slap fest with the US?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I don't seem to recall our PM abruptly calling off dinners every time they did something like invade Iraq...

No, he just had members of his staff mention that the president is a moron at an official function.

[notyoueither]

... to reporters.

[KrazyHorse]

Not really, NYE. Rudeness for rudeness' sake isn't my game. I have no problem with cooperating with them on issues to promote our shared welfare.

But I really do feel like they're starting to turn a bit abusive when it comes to diplomatic slights. We aren't going to go along with every issue they want us to. It's a fact of life, especially when you've got two very ideologically different governments involved. The solution is to live and let live. They've taken more than a few quasiofficial slaps at us for the last few years, though, and it's starting to get to the point where you have to wonder if the only thing they understand is a little slap back. Hopefully it reminds them of how much nicer things are when we don't fight.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by notyoueither


No, he just had members of his staff mention that the president is a moron at an official function.

I seem to recall her ass getting canned.

[notyoueither]

How about when the PM says yes, then maybe, then out of the blue says no, to an issue that is important to their administration? You can't see they might be a little... picqued by the whole business?

Of course, he waited to say no until the administration stuck its neck out with Senators and Congress by directing that cattle trade resume.

Very convenient that, from the POV of Washington, no?

[KrazyHorse]

How about when the PM says yes, then maybe, then out of the blue says no, to an issue that is important to their administration? You can't see they might be a little... picqued by the whole business?

He said yes? News to me...

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

I seem to recall her ass getting canned.

Pensioned off to a job with an ad agency in Quebec, no doubt.

What about the members of caucus who said the most outrageous things that were never punished?

Or, the former Minister of Foreign Affairs who seems to have his holier than thou nose out of joint?

The administration of the US has done **** all. We get flack from conservative American commentators, and we squeal like pigs every time a member of the US media coins a term like Communist Canuckistan.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

How about when the PM says yes, then maybe, then out of the blue says no, to an issue that is important to their administration? You can't see they might be a little... picqued by the whole business?

He said yes? News to me...

It has been suggested.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:640mtUIA-YcJ:www.canoe.ca/LondonOpinions/home.html+missile+defence+canada+opinion+editorial&hl=en

Martin fizzles over missile plan


Far more damaging to the future of Canadian-American relations than Prime Minister Paul Martin's decision yesterday not to join Washington's missile defence program, is his government's protracted backtracking, evasion and contradicting itself on this issue.

In the months since Martin took the leadership of the Liberal party, proclaiming a new era of co-operation and dialogue with the U.S., he has shuffled, recanted and, yes, dithered, from initial support for missile defence, to a long period of ambiguity and, finally, to rejection.

At the same time, the prime minister has lost an important opportunity to engage the Americans in a much more comprehensive and meaningful dialogue on the future of North American military defence and the role Canada can play in it as a full partner. The scope of that type of forward-looking strategy discussion goes far beyond notions of defensive missiles shooting down incoming nuclear ballistic missiles at some date in the future.

The result: clumsy theatrics triumph once again over substance. The prime minister declares Canada won't participate in the missile shield, despite his earlier statements to both U.S. President George W. Bush and to Canadians that we would, which is read in Washington as a betrayal. In doing so, Martin kneecaps the credibility of his newly appointed ambassador to the U.S., Frank McKenna. The American ambassador to Canada, meanwhile, muses that Canada is giving up "its sovereignty -- its seat at the table -- to decide what to do about a missile that might be coming toward Canada."

The meaningful defence of a sprawling land mass as vast as North America against a wide range of threats, conventional and unconventional, requires a broad and versatile set of strategies. There will always be a need for troops on the ground, aircraft, ships (both at sea level and beneath it), coastal defences, electronic monitoring and intelligence gathering. In recent years, Canada has been a poor player in some of these facets of our own defence, let alone in our partnership with the U.S.

This week's federal budget hinted that trend is about to change: Significant new investments on national defence are in the offing, though the timetable for such reinvestments is long and tenuous, given the Liberals' track record on the military. The prime minister was in a position to argue this country was positioning itself for a much larger role in North American defence -- indeed, he tried to do so yesterday. But that's a message that won't penetrate the only signal Washington will likely receive -- the image of a squeamish prime minister doing an about-face. And of the NDP and the Bloc Quebecois gleefully applauding another aborted opportunity to improve bilateral relations. And of the Conservative party sitting on its hands, competing with the Liberals for dithering rights.

A strong national leader and statesman would have formulated and articulated a clear position, then championed it both at home and abroad. He would have rejected the reduction of North American defences to one of mere missiles, and sought to engage the Americans in a multi-pronged plan in which both nations could play their respective parts.

Unfortunately, we saw none of that.

[KrazyHorse]

'Scuse me?

What do you call Cellucci saying some of the rudest things I've ever heard an American ambassador saying to Canadians and about 58 "scheduling problems" with state visits?

Hell, our current prime minister spent half his time running for office talking about how he was going to mend fences, followed by his appointment of a real soft touch to the post of ambassador and surprise surprise he's finding it impossible to work with them either...

[KrazyHorse]

He dithered for sure. Falls under that thing where we try not to say "no" too loudly to not embarass them. If they keep pushing the issue then they'll just get a louder no.

I just don't recall him saying anything that would be regarded as real support for it...

[notyoueither]

What did Cellucci say that has your attention stuck fast?

The sovereignty remark?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
He dithered for sure. Falls under that thing where we try not to say "no" too loudly to not embarass them. If they keep pushing the issue then they'll just get a louder no.

I just don't recall him saying anything that would be regarded as real support for it...

He had his defense minister fronting it.