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Missile Defence: Canada says "No way!!"

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  • Missile Defence: Canada says "No way!!"

    Apparently so:




    Updated: Wed. Feb. 23 2005 11:33 PM ET


    Prime Minister Paul Martin informed the U.S. ambassador to Canada Wednesday night that Canada will say 'no' on Thursday to participating in the U.S. missile defence program.

    "And the chief of defence staff told the U.S. joint chiefs today, explained that (decision) to them," Craig Oliver, CTV News' chief parliamentary correspondent.

    However, the U.S. military leaders were happy to hear of a $13-billion boost in military spending over five years as announced in Wednesday's budget speech, he said.

    Earlier in the day, the U.S. wasn't so happy. Paul Cellucci, the country's ambassador here, was saying "we don't get it," as to why Canada doesn't wish to participate in the controversial program.

    "If there's a missile incoming, and it's heading toward Canada, you are going to leave it up to the United States to determine what to do about that missile. We don't think that is in Canada's sovereign interest."

    In Parliament Wednesday, opposition parties pressured Martin during question period after reports surfaced Tuesday that he plans to reject the program despite comments made by Canada's newly appointed ambassador to Washington that this country is already involved.

    "We are part of it now," Frank McKenna said after appearing in Ottawa before a Commons committee examining his appointment. "And the question is, what more do we need?"

    Martin's Liberals have consistently denied having made any decision on missile defence.

    A heated debate ensued during question period, with the opposition accusing the prime minister of making a deal with the U.S. "under the table" and then denying it.

    "Are we in, are we out? Or is the prime minister dithering still?" asked Conservative MP Peter MacKay.

    Martin and his ministers repeatedly pointed to a communique released on Aug. 5, which outlines amendments to Norad -- North American Aerospace Defence Command -- which Canada agreed to. The amendments make Norad's missile warning function available to the U.S. commands conducting ballistic missile defence.

    "We entered into an agreement to amend Norad to allow (the U.S.) to use Norad information to appreciate the threats to North America," said Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew.

    "But we have not entered into an agreement with Washington over ballistic missile defence whatsoever."

    Martin said that a decision on Canada's involvement in missile defence will be announced "when it's in Canada's interests to do so."

    In Washington, Richard Boucher, a U.S. State Department spokesman, told reporters that Canada had yet to inform the U.S. of its decision.

    But a senior Canadian official told The Canadian Press that Canada's decision was passed along at the NATO summit attended earlier this week by Martin and U.S. President George W. Bush.

    Analysis

    Political studies professor James Fergusson of the University of Manitoba told CTV he doesn't believe Martin will make a final announcement soon on Canada's involvement in the plan.

    "I think he may just simply say that no decision has been made, which has been government policy for quite a while."

    He adds: "I think it would be a bad decision if Canada said no to this, very simply because we would be ceding more of our defence, and in effect, our sovereignty to the United States."

    Steven Staples of the Polaris Institute, however, says he believes Paul Martin must say no to U.S. President George Bush and missile defence.

    "He's got a divided caucus. There's a liberal convention coming up. The grassroots of the party is sending at least 20 resolutions up through the queue against missile defence," he said.

    Staples also points to growing public opinion against missile defence, citing an EKOS poll that showed two-thirds of Canadians thought missile defence was an issue worth going to an election over.

    "I think that was the last nail in the coffin," says Staples.
    While that might be true for domestic politics, there are international considerations too.

    David Biette, director of the Canada Institute at the Woodrow Wilson International Centre for Scholars in Washington, endorsed Cellucci's view that Canada was weakening its sovereignty.

    "I fear that it risks marginalizing Canada and Canada is ceding sovereignty by not being there when the decisions are being made,'' he told The Canadian Press.

    It's making people unhappy in this administration that Canada is happy to take a free ride.''

    U.S. defence analyst Dwight Mason said it would be the first time since 1938 that Canada had refused to participate in continental defence.

    With files from The Canadian Press
    Only feebs vote.

  • #2
    Does no-one care?

    Paul Martin just flipped Bush the bird.

    I particularly loved this bit:

    If there's a missile incoming, and it's heading toward Canada, you are going to leave it up to the United States to determine what to do about that missile.


    Who would fire a missile towards Canada anyway?
    Only feebs vote.

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    • #3
      This is indeed good news, but don't overestimate it. Frank McKenna, Canada's new ambassador to Washinton, has said the US already has most of what it wants. Canada has been secretly cooperating the the US on planning for missile 'defence' for a couple of years. Canada has agreed that NORAD will track any incoming missiles for the missile 'defense' system, giving the US access to Canadian radar information.

      This simply means that abm basing will be in the US and not in Canada, for now. The Liberal Government is in a minority position and could lose an election over this issue, considering the unpopularity of missle 'defense' in Canada. This is the real reason for the temporary reversal of the Prime Minister's position in support of missile 'defense'.
      Tecumseh's Village, Home of Fine Civilization Scenarios

      www.tecumseh.150m.com

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      • #4
        Canada has agreed that NORAD will track any incoming missiles for the missile 'defense' system, giving the US access to Canadian radar information.


        They had to do this or risk losing NORAD. But Bush has lost since the primary reason for getting Canada on board was to make the US look less isolated.

        The Liberal Government is in a minority position and could lose an election over this issue, considering the unpopularity of missle 'defense' in Canada.


        But the Tories want missile defence, and I can't see most of Canada voting for the NDP (lovely though that would be).

        A Canadian election would be good though - solely to see Ben Kenobi lose another bet and have to wear a gay rights avatar again.
        Only feebs vote.

        Comment


        • #5
          I think you are involved in a premature leftist circle jerk

          Martin and his ministers repeatedly pointed to a communique released on Aug. 5, which outlines amendments to Norad -- North American Aerospace Defence Command -- which Canada agreed to. The amendments make Norad's missile warning function available to the U.S. commands conducting ballistic missile defence.

          "We entered into an agreement to amend Norad to allow (the U.S.) to use Norad information to appreciate the threats to North America," said Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew.

          "But we have not entered into an agreement with Washington over ballistic missile defence whatsoever."

          Martin said that a decision on Canada's involvement in missile defence will be announced "when it's in Canada's interests to do so."


          Considering that a Canadian can command NORAD, how the hell could we not be involved?

          This is smoke and mirrors at this point. There is no way in hell any responsible government in Ottawa would say 'go ahead, use NORAD facilities [that means the airforce and all the airports, btw] but we don't want nothing to do with it!
          (\__/)
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          • #6
            Actually, they can say they have nothing to do with it, all the while letting the Yanks do what ever is needed. They can enable but deny.

            Didn't Dief try something like that?
            (\__/)
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            • #7
              Originally posted by techumseh
              This is indeed good news, but don't overestimate it. Frank McKenna, Canada's new ambassador to Washinton, has said the US already has most of what it wants. Canada has been secretly cooperating the the US on planning for missile 'defence' for a couple of years. Canada has agreed that NORAD will track any incoming missiles for the missile 'defense' system, giving the US access to Canadian radar information.

              This simply means that abm basing will be in the US and not in Canada, for now. The Liberal Government is in a minority position and could lose an election over this issue, considering the unpopularity of missle 'defense' in Canada. This is the real reason for the temporary reversal of the Prime Minister's position in support of missile 'defense'.
              I fail to see how the Liberals could lose an election over the issue.

              Who would people elect, the Tories who wanted to be shoulder to shoulder in Iraq? The NDP?
              (\__/)
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              (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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              • #8
                I think you are involved in a premature leftist circle jerk


                Perhaps, but this comment has just earned you a couple of weeks of flaming and gloating if it turns out to be correct.

                I guess you just love wasting money and warmongering.
                Only feebs vote.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Agathon
                  I think you are involved in a premature leftist circle jerk


                  Perhaps, but this comment has just earned you a couple of weeks of flaming and gloating if it turns out to be correct.

                  I guess you just love wasting money and warmongering.
                  a non functional missle defense shield is a tremendous boondoggle to be sure but you'll have to enlighten me as to how deploying said dysfunctional missle neutralizing shield could somehow constitute some sort of 'warmongering'.

                  Do you also regard construction of public WMD shelters as a kind of 'warmongering'?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Agathon
                    I think you are involved in a premature leftist circle jerk


                    Perhaps, but this comment has just earned you a couple of weeks of flaming and gloating if it turns out to be correct.

                    I guess you just love wasting money and warmongering.
                    No. I love not being an anti-American bigot.

                    It's their money, let them waste it. It's your lot who get their panties in a bunch at the very thought of cooperation with the Yanks on anything military, including the defence of North America.
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                    • #11
                      Missile defense is a destabilising influence (especially wrt China's currently limited long-range ICBM fleet) and an enormous waste of money for a threat which is actually of fairly low order of probability (especially for us). If people are shooting missiles at Canada then the world situation has already deteriorated to the point where missile defense won't help us.

                      We shouldn't have anything to do with this. It's not in our national interest.
                      12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                      Stadtluft Macht Frei
                      Killing it is the new killing it
                      Ultima Ratio Regum

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                      • #12
                        Aggie's just pissed that NZ wasn't invited to the party.
                        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                        Stadtluft Macht Frei
                        Killing it is the new killing it
                        Ultima Ratio Regum

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by notyoueither
                          It's their money, let them waste it. It's your lot who get their panties in a bunch at the very thought of cooperation with the Yanks on anything military, including the defence of North America.
                          I have no problem with full cooperation with them on defense of North America, but missile defense is a bad idea plain and simple.
                          12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                          Stadtluft Macht Frei
                          Killing it is the new killing it
                          Ultima Ratio Regum

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                          • #14
                            I hope $0 of the new budget increase is 'backdoored' into this programme somehow.

                            I'm still upset that we bought the worse of the two helicopters for our long overdue helicopter upgrade.
                            "Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
                            "...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
                            "sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.

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                            • #15
                              Who's going to fire these missiles again?
                              "I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
                              "You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:

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