Feeding the Dragon, Hurting the Alliance

[Imran Siddiqui]

You could've made the similar argument during the Cold War. Did that make the Cold War a safe time, just because everyone involved had logical reasons not to start a nuclear exchange?

I'd argue it made it a safer time, because nukes kept the Cold War a cold war. Without them, a hot war would have erupted at some point. Yeah, people lived in fear, but you didn't have hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of Americans die in a direct war with the USSR.

[Drake Tungsten]

Bring on an arms race, then. Imran says it's safe...

[Ted Striker]

Anything worth contributing besides trying to make personal digs on other posters?

Didn't think so.

[Drake Tungsten]

Look back a couple pages, slick. There's a good article on the Senkakus that may teach you a thing or two...

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Agathon
As I've said elsewhere, this "problem" is sorting itself out in the long term.

China won't ever admit that Taiwan is not a renegade province, mainly because it is. On the other hand, the Taiwanese government still maintains that it is the legitimate government of all China.

They'll sort it out eventually. I wouldn't be too scared of Chinese saber rattling.
...

Everyone keeps forgetting about Tibet.

I don't.

You have a weak country smack between two enemies. Do the math.
...
They don't want to kill us, they want to sell us stuff. Their whole model of development is based around this fact.

I don't see them as particularly hostile.

Ah, I see. Because they aren't rattling their sabres at you it isn't important. By "sorting itself out" you mean, "Hey, what's another few million people falling under the thumb of the mainland Chinese government? Maybe they'll like it better."

"Tibet's f***ed anyway, so they're not worth worrying about." Another shining example of Aggy's leftie compassion.

Is Agathon worth taking of ignore for this thread?

Judge for yourself.

[Straybow]

Originally posted by GePap
I just reade the crap OP. and what single things stands out: why should the Europeans give a **** about US hegemony over the Pacific? Its not liek the US has been a worthwhile stewrd of democracy in the region at all until only the last few years...

As for the notion that China has no external threats, so why should they buy weapons- what external threat does the US actually have that justifies a 400+ billion dollar military budget?...

That is the underlying notion at the root of this moronic piece- that everyone out there in the world should accept the current system of US military domination just because we are the nices, best, most lovable people ever and everyone should see that, and anyone who does not must be bad!

Well, for one thing we like to take seriously that old saw, "He who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it." For example, the Brits saying in 1932 that there was no possibility of war within 10 years. How they were too weak just 5 years later to oppose Hitler, the Brits and French turning their backs as Hungary was forced to surrender the Sudatenland.

If you are weak, your enemies are encouraged to take advantage of that weakness. There was no WW3 against the Soviets because we never let down our guard. There will be no WW3 with the Chinese if we continue to keep our guard up.

Is this principle something you honestly don't understand, or are you merely ideologically obtuse? "If we all just laid down our guns there'd be no more war."

At least the Europeans when they controlled the world were not so deluded as to think that people should gladly submit to the world system they imposed even if they did think themselves better than everyone else.

Hah! The Europeans did think the races of the lands they colonized should be grateful for the internal peace, education, and other benefits of civilization brought in.

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
That's true but the fiasco in Iraq drastically reduces both our political and military leverage, and worst of all, has taken our credibility to one of the lowest points ever.

Plus it has also encouraged all these Axis of Evil and Friends countries to get nukes as fast as they can to defend themselves from any possible aggression, whether it's real or perceived.

Then there is the problem of sabre rattling, which has only made the situation much worse than it had to be.

All of these things have undermined our ability to deal with the situation.

"Fiasco?" The only fiasco in Iraq is that half our "allies" were too corrupted to honestly face the situation. US credibility hasn't changed one whit. Those who like to paint the US as teh gr8 eeevil may have grown more vociferous now that they have something tangible to complain about from the safety of their armchairs.

So do you think NK and Iran weren't trying to get nukes while Clinton was in office? These programs are not merely 2 years old.

So do you think we should promise not to brandish our arms and ask NK and Iran, "Don't develop nukes, pretty please?"

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Look back a couple pages, slick. There's a good article on the Senkakus that may teach you a thing or two...

WOW




A couple of islands that most nations agree belonged to Japan in the first place and China only half-heartedly claimed. Japan finally got around to reassert itself over something it already had rights to.

CHINA'S RESPONSE: NUCLEAR WAR BEYOTCH!!!!!!




not

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Straybow

Originally posted by Ted Striker
That's true but the fiasco in Iraq drastically reduces both our political and military leverage, and worst of all, has taken our credibility to one of the lowest points ever.

Plus it has also encouraged all these Axis of Evil and Friends countries to get nukes as fast as they can to defend themselves from any possible aggression, whether it's real or perceived.

Then there is the problem of sabre rattling, which has only made the situation much worse than it had to be.

All of these things have undermined our ability to deal with the situation.

"Fiasco?" The only fiasco in Iraq is that half our "allies" were too corrupted to honestly face the situation. US credibility hasn't changed one whit. Those who like to paint the US as teh gr8 eeevil may have grown more vociferous now that they have something tangible to complain about from the safety of their armchairs.

Okay.

So do you think NK and Iran weren't trying to get nukes while Clinton was in office? These programs are not merely 2 years old.

So do you think we should promise not to brandish our arms and ask NK and Iran, "Don't develop nukes, pretty please?"

North Korea already HAS nukes. Please try to keep up.

[Drake Tungsten]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
WOW




A couple of islands that most nations agree belonged to Japan in the first place and China only half-heartedly claimed. Japan finally got around to reassert itself over something it already had rights to.

CHINA'S RESPONSE: NUCLEAR WAR BEYOTCH!!!!!!




not

Good lord Ted, what happened to you?

[DaShi]

I'll just say this: Take a close look at how Chinese treat their own people. Then ask yourself, how would they treat foreigners, if they held power over them?

[notyoueither]

Chirac isn't too concerned about that, DaShi. It doesn't appear as if most Euros are either.

[Drake Tungsten]

Chirac isn't too concerned about that, DaShi. It doesn't appear as if most Euros are either.

Or most of the Americans posting in this thread, sadly enough...

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Agathon
Is it totally inconceivable that the Chinese might actually be friendly people?

Oerdin. Will you answer my questions above? Do you think that China is heading in the right direction overall or not?

Why don't you run over there and find out for us? You won't be missed in North America, and I'm sure that you're just the sort of free thinker that the Chinese government needs to continue its reforms. They'd probably give you a parade.

[Seeker]

Hey why doesn't America sell arms to China? I'm sure they could outbid the EU and out quality the Russians.

1. You'd be sure of exactly what they're getting.

2. You'd make more money

3. You'd actually have a real excuse to continue Reagan era 'defense' porking.

4. You'd put their spies out of work and practice.