Feeding the Dragon, Hurting the Alliance

[Agathon]

Either way we are the reason for China's growth (or rather access to western markets, allowing our companies to invest there, and our greed for cheap goods are the reasons) even if we don't want to admite it. There is nothing majorly concrete about China's liberal reforms but their desire to continue to expand trade is a powerful lever we can use to avoid conflict.

They don't want to kill us, they want to sell us stuff. Their whole model of development is based around this fact.

I don't see them as particularly hostile.

[DinoDoc]

Is Agathon worth taking of ignore for this thread?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Agathon
They don't want to kill us, they want to sell us stuff. Their whole model of development is based around this fact.

I don't see them as particularly hostile.

Then you aren't paying attention to the retoric about Taiwan nor their continuing support for North Korea. The threat can be managed easily enough with the right diplomacy but it still exists.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I already said you had nothing of substance to add. There's no reason to keep proving me right. Now if you'd like to rise above the muck of Agathon's post perhaps you could tell me how lifting the embargo would be a good idea beyond the fact it would please you because you feel pissed at the US.

To criticize someone else's opinion, you have to actually HAVE ONE yourself.

Blindly posting an article without any commentary and waiting to snipe people as they show up doesn't count.

So, what are you scared of anyway? The big bad Chinese are going to take our place as baddest kid on the block?

[Drake Tungsten]

I'm scared of a nuclear WW3 starting in East Asia. I guess you're telling me that wouldn't be so bad, eh?

[Ted Striker]

I'm sure after we invade we will confiscate the weapons of mass destruction.

Wait...

[Drake Tungsten]

Way to be, Ted. You're now more interested in harping on the same tired topics than you are in constructively dealing with serious issues. Your transformation into a leftist idiot is complete. Congratulations.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I'm scared of a nuclear WW3 starting in East Asia. I guess you're telling me that wouldn't be so bad, eh?

India and Pakistan are far more likely of starting that.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I'm scared of a nuclear WW3 starting in East Asia. I guess you're telling me that wouldn't be so bad, eh?

Who's going to nuke who? Seriously, Pakistan and India have a detante, Russia has enough to deter any nuclear attack, China has a small nuclear arsonal but decent long range missiles while North Korea only has a handful of nukes and only medium range missiles. Japan, south Korea, and Taiwan are all explicitly in the American umbrella so MAD protects them.

North Korea won't nuke anyone because they don't have enough nukes to finish anyone off while the response would certainly destroy them, China is in the same boat with fewer then 50 warheads they can't knock out an estabilished nuclear power so they'd get killed in the response. That just leaves India & Pakistan who both have small nuclear arsonals so it isn't unthinkable one leader could think a sneak attack could knock out the other's nukes. That's about the only creditable senerio for nuclear war in Asia and even that's pretty remote.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Way to be, Ted. You're now more interested in harping on the same tired topics than you are in constructively dealing with serious issues. Your transformation into a leftist idiot is complete. Congratulations.

It's all intertwined together, genius.


We waste our entire military on Iraq, meanwhile North Korea gets nukes, and we are powerless to stop them. So now you're here blaming China for the possible outbreak of world war 3.

Sweet deal.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by Agathon
Blah blah blah. More American whining. Why should we care about what you want? You can't do anything to anyone anyway. Your mighty military is being held down in Iraq by a bunch of machine gun toting youths after all.

If this is the case, then why do the U.S.-bashers persist in calling America an evil hyperpower?

Gatekeeper

[Dinner]

To be fair North Korea is allied with China so we would be powerless to stop them even with no Iraq unless we wanted to start a general war in Asia.

[Ted Striker]

That's true but the fiasco in Iraq drastically reduces both our political and military leverage, and worst of all, has taken our credibility to one of the lowest points ever.

Plus it has also encouraged all these Axis of Evil and Friends countries to get nukes as fast as they can to defend themselves from any possible aggression, whether it's real or perceived.

Then there is the problem of sabre rattling, which has only made the situation much worse than it had to be.

All of these things have undermined our ability to deal with the situation.

[Drake Tungsten]

India and Pakistan are far more likely of starting that.

Why can't we be worried about both?

Who's going to nuke who?

You could've made the similar argument during the Cold War. Did that make the Cold War a safe time, just because everyone involved had logical reasons not to start a nuclear exchange?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

India and Pakistan are far more likely of starting that.

Why can't we be worried about both?

Just saying there isn't that great of a chance of war with India and Pakistan (in fact nukes may have prevented a war between the two states in the late 90s... not like they weren't due for one), so basing your fears on an East Asian nuclear WW3 is kind of silly. Nukes prevent warfare, as they did between the USSR and US (without nukes, WW3 would have occured, I'm sure of it).