Chavez is loony, looney, looney.

[Dinner]

Please show a link to where he's made meaningful increases in social spending or public investment in Real inflation adjusted dollars. BTW cheap imports do help an economy because you don't get the 25%-30% inflation Chavez has created. Don't you wonder why the national poverty rate has gone from 47%-71% since Chavez took over? It has to do with everything costing far more while there is no possible way to raise wages to keep up.

Chavez is using traditional failed statism which was popular in Latin America in the 1950's and the Arab world today. The result is falling standards of living, shrinking real incomes, and huge unemployment.

[Kidlicious]

I don't know if the poverty rate is that high right now.

Here's something else from the last article that I posted.

Tobías Nóbrega, minister of Finance until a few days ago, said last April that Venezuela has overcome its fiscal problems by doing exactly the opposite to what the IMF has recommended for its “experiments” in Latin America, and pointed out that the country can well do without the advice from the IMF, of which Venezuela is an associate.

Nobrega’s annoyance was evident when last April, the IMF estimated that the Venezuelan economy would grow 8.8% this year, but that such growth would not be sustainable throughout 2005, when it would drop to 1.1%.

“The case of Venezuela for 2003 shows that all of the IMF recommendations and policies are dispensable”, said Nóbrega. He then pointed out that after the oil strike, from December of 2002 to February of 2003, Venezuela implemented economic policies that enabled it to recover, improve its country risk rate, and return to the financial markets with successful debt operations.

“Venezuela is a nation that is overcoming its financial difficulties independently, without the need for the IMF, and it is doing all the opposite to what the narrow and already known IMF recipes recommend”, said the then minister

The economy of the world’s fifth largest oil exporter is recovering from record contractions: 7.6% and 8.9% in 2002 and 2003,respectively; years of political instability, in which Chávez survived a coup d’état, an entrepreneurial strike, and an oil industry lockout, all intended to drive democratically elected president Chávez from office.

The government estimates between 11% and 14% growth of the Gross Domestic Product this year, and at least a 5% growth in 2005.

The government has used abundant oil incomes to increase social spending on education, health, and employment for the depressed majority, a policy that has generated much criticism among opposition analysts, who claim that hundreds of millions of dollars have been squandered, in that they do not really address the root causes of poverty.

To others, this is the first time ever that at least part of the country’s oil incomes are invested in the vast majorities and not in personal bank accounts of governmental officials and administrators. Chávez has referred to the IMF as “ill-fated” and promised not to kneel before it, after Venezuela underwent its severe and imposed fiscal adjustments between 1989 and 1996.

Since when do institutions like the IMF state nominal growth rates as if they were real?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Even the IMF agrees that things are improving in Venezuela.

IMF Flirts with Venezuela

You counter my links with a Venezuelan government owned site which has a big picture of Chavez at the top?

BTW the IMF just said that Venezuela doesn't need and IMF loan not that it is getting better. The IMF only intervines when countries default on loans but Venezuela has been paying its debts using oil revenue. Oil production is falling in Venezuela and the record prices can't last for ever so some time there will be a day or reconning.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Oerdin
You counter my links with a Venezuelan government owned site which has a big picture of Chavez at the top?

It's not govt owned. Why do you say that? And what is wrong with a website owned by the govt anyway?

BTW the IMF just said that Venezuela doesn't need and IMF loan not that it is getting better. The IMF only intervines when countries default on loans but Venezuela has been paying its debts using oil revenue. Oil production is falling in Venezuela and the record prices can't last for ever so some time there will be a day or reconning.

I wouldn't expect them to say the economy is getting better. They said the economy was growing. That's my point.

High import prices and shortages can have a negative effect, but things can get better with time.

[Kidlicious]

Venezuela Experienced Record Growth of 17% in 2004

Caracas, February 17, 2005—Venezuela’s gross domestic product grew 17.3% in 2004, closing the year with a "notable recuperation" according to the Central Bank of Venezuela. The oil economy, which accounts for 80% of the country's exports, experienced an 8.7% growth rate. This growth "constitutes the highest level reached since the Central Bank of Venezuela began to calculate the figure (GDP)," said the Central Bank.

edit: Check the date.

[Dinner]

Kid, as explained earlier 17.3 (the growth rate) minus 27.08% (the inflation rate) equals -9.78% real growth.

[Kidlicious]

Nope. Sorry this is hurting you to know this. Go to the Central Bank of Venezuela website. Click on English Version. Then Click on GDP. Then notice that the current growth rate of 17.3 is in 1997 prices.

[Dinner]

Sorry, that just doesn't jive.

[Kidlicious]

You are sorry for what? You can't comprehend that. I understand. But why are you sorry?

[Dinner]

Kid, I have shown several links about the high inflation and the negative real GDP growth. You making things up doesn't help your case.

[Kidlicious]

I'm not making things up. It's the Central Bank of Velenzuela. What is your problem with that?

[Dinner]

Link were it shows real GDP growth?

[GePap]

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1449

That link says the economy declined by 9/7% in 2003, then climbed 18% in 2004 thanks to the oil boom.

[Kidlicious]

You go here . Then you click on the link that says GDP. It's an Excel file. Now click on the sheet that says var% 2004-2003. It's GDP growth in 1997 prices.

[Dinner]

Gepap, that shows the growth rate but doesn't factor in inflation. HERE is an article from Bloomburg saying the Venezuela inflation rate has fallen to 19% from over 30%. The other links I posted said 2004's inflation rate was 27% (I don't know why they are giving different numbers) but even the lower Bloomburg figure would give negative real GDP growth.