Chavez is loony, looney, looney.

[Dinner]

This guy has really lost his marbles. Chavez is now claiming he has survived hundreds of American assassination attempts though when asked for proof of his claims he is unable to provide anything. Chavez's cronyism and anti-business practices have lead every sector of the economy except oil to nose dive (real GDP growth is -9.2% and the economy has been in recession since Chavez took over in 1999) yet Chavez stil keeps spending more and more money buying Russian weapons and giving free oil to his buddy Castro.

Approximately 50% of the population lives below the poverty line (that's up 20% since Chavez took power) and 1/3 of the population is without running water or electricity yet Chavez continues to give away millions of dollars worth of Oil to Castro's Cuba and spends nearly as much on the military as Brazil does. Industrial production is down 15% in the last year due to Chavez nationalizing the businesses of just about anyone who ever spoke critically of him plus he's closed down just about every nongovernment controlled media outlet in the country.

This guy is a loony and his crony policies are a total failure. I can only guess he's making wild claims about the US trying to assassinate him in order to distract people from the terrible economic mess he's put his country in. Take a good look people. This is the latin neo-communist hero that Sava and others were cheering for just a few months ago. It's so sad it is pathetic.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4282603.stm

http://www.travelblog.org/World/ve-econ.html

[chequita guevara]

What's more likely to be true? Chavez surviving hundreds of a U.S. sponsored assassination attempts or an invisibile all knowing, all-powerful being personally selecting George Bush to be President? Who's the bigger nut?

Following your link, I see no mention of "hundreds of assassination attempts" but that he claims Washington is planning to assassinate him. Given our history, it's not an unreasonable claim, even if he has no proof. The next time the opposition attempts a coup, they will kill him if they get their hands on him, considering what happened last time.

Also, there was a two-month owners strike in the oil industry last year. If your main source of income is nocked out for 1/6th of a year, it would be unsurprising if your economy didn't take a serious hit.

[chequita guevara]

Re: Chavez is loony, looney, looney.

Originally posted by Oerdin
Chavez continues to give away millions of dollars worth of Oil to Castro's Cuba and spends nearly as much on the military as Brazil does.

#1, Cuba gives back quite a bit to Venezuela in return. Thousands of Cuban doctors are practicing in Venezuela, and Cuba is training Venezuelans to be docotors as well.

#2, the U.S. has a history of attempting to invade and / or sponsor terrorist armies against Latin American countries it doesn't like. Chavez has good reason to be paranoid.

[Dinner]

Seeings how the US is the one who forced the anti-Chavez coupe plotters to step down I'm really not seeing how hia claims add up. Why can't he point to any evidience if he's supposedly survived hundreds of American assassination attempts? It sure seems more likely that Chavez is trying to get people to think about anything but Chavez's own disastorously failed economics.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Seeings how the US is the one who forced the anti-Chavez coupe plotters to step down I'm really not seeing how hia claims add up.

Once it became obvious it was a failure and that Chavez's forces were going to resume control, yes, the US did "force" the coup to step down. Of course, at first it welcomed the overthrow of Chavez.

Why can't he point to any evidience if he's supposedly survived hundreds of American assassination attempts?

Where does it say he says that "he's supposedly survived hundreds of American assassination attempts?" In your link, it says nothing about hundreds of attempts, and only that the U.S. is trying to have him killed.

It sure seems more likely that Chavez is trying to get people to think about anything but Chavez's own disastorously failed economics.

Again, there's no evidence that "his" economics are disasterous. Anyone with any sense would point their fingers at those who deliberately shut the economy down last year, the employers. The fact that the economy was shut down for 1/6th of the year, but only took a 1/9th dip seem to point to the conclusion that his policies aren't that disasterous.

[Dinner]

Mr Chavez has repeatedly accused the US of backing Venezuela's opposition to oust or even kill him, a charge Washington denies.

He has alleged that the White House played part in an April coup in 2002, which briefly removed him from power.

Mr Chavez's comments echoed the words of Cuban President Fidel Castro who said last week: "If Chavez is assassinated, the blame will fall on Bush."

"I say that as someone who has survived hundreds of the empire's (assassination) plans," Mr Castro added.

"Now, I am going to say it. Neither Fidel Castro nor I talk nonsense," Mr Chavez said on Sunday.

OK, upon rereading the article Castro was the one claiming to have survived hundreds of American assassination attempts. Chavez has simply claimed the US has tried to kill him an unspecified number of times and he claims they are still trying.

[Kidlicious]

What a crappy troll? How about these stats from your source?

Population below poverty line: 47% (1998 est.)

Household income or consumption by percentage share: lowest 10%: 0.8% highest 10%: 36.5% (1998)

What's the update on these? Who the hell cares about GDP when the people don't get any of it?

edit: Actually in your original post you claimed that this poverty stat was current, and blamed Chavez, which is wrong. The stat is from 1998.

[Dinner]

The economy is shrinking at almost a 10% rate per year, industrial production is down 15%, and the poverty rate is going up rapidly. Yes, Chavez's economic policies are really helping the people.

That's just the latest year and not even the worst. Shall we look at what Chavez's policies have done to the nation's economy since 1999 when he took power?

[Kidlicious]

The poverty stats you provided are from 1998.

[Dinner]

But still two-thirds of Venezuelans still live in poverty.

That's from a BBC article published in Dec 2002. 66% is higher then 47% ergo the poverty rate has gone up nearly 50% since Chavez took power. The economy has shrank dramatically since 2002 so expect the poverty rate in 2005 to be still higher.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2577227.stm

Read the section "Wealth paradox".

[Kidlicious]

December 2002 is also out dated.

btw, that article said that wages have been higher, and since Chavez has taken power roads, universities and mass transit have been built.

Here's a more up to date article that estimates there to be 10% economic growth for 2004. And says that Chavez has gotten rid of a lot of cronies.

Perseverance paying off in Venezuela

Despite being vilified by his political opposition at home and the Bush administration in the US, President Hugo Chavez has reversed years of Washington-influenced economic policies in Venezuela, spurring strong economic recovery.

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While record high international oil prices are playing a role in Venezuela's economic rebound, the restructuring of the country's state-owned oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela (PdVSA,) is equally important to growth. In addition to greater government control over PdVSA, this restructuring is dramatically increasing cash flow into Venezuela's economy, laying the foundation for sustained, robust economic growth.

After his inauguration in 1999, President Chavez's first policy priority was reunifying a divided OPEC struggling with over-production and plunging international oil prices. Chavez sent Minister of Mines and Energy Ali Rodriguez on a tour of OPEC nations, a tour Chavez repeated in 2000. These tours produced an OPEC summit in Caracas and secured Rodriguez's position as the organization's Secretary General.

Rodriguez successfully convinced OPEC members to reduce oil production. He also implemented the cartel's first-ever target band for oil prices. The efforts of Chavez and Rodriguez to unite OPEC behind strict production quotas immediately pushed international oil prices higher, raising the ire of Washington and threatening the energy security policy of the Bush administration.

What began as a conflict between Caracas and Washington over oil supplies and prices quickly spread to other facets of the Chavez government's foreign policy. The Bush administration lost no opportunity to express its displeasure with Venezuela's close relations with Cuba and growing influence over its neighbors in South America. This influence helped produce unified opposition to U.S. policy positions in the World Trade Organization and in negotiations over the moribund Free Trade Area of the Americas.

Chavez's domestic policies drew even greater rebuke from Washington. Simultaneous to his growing influence in South America and OPEC, Chavez began consolidating his political position at home. In a series of plebiscites in 1999, the Chavez government succeeded in rewriting Venezuela's constitution.

General elections held in 2000, as legislated by the new constitution, kept President Chavez in power. Despite strict observance of Venezuela law during all the polls between 1998 and 2000, top officials in the Bush administration repeatedly labeled Chavez as undemocratic and authoritarian.

The new constitution elevated the importance of social development in Venezuela. While going great lengths to protect private property, it also emphasized the preeminent role of the state in the economy and subordinated the role of foreign investors, especially in the crucial oil sector. The new constitution abruptly changed Venezuela's existing economic order, which had been molded by the Washington Consensus and administered by the IMF.

Central to the heightened role of the state in the economy has been the reassertion of government control over Venezuela's largest company, PdVSA. Including its indirect impact on the economy, PdVSA accounts for 40 percent of Venezuela's production-based gross domestic product. It also produces over 80 percent of the country's export receipts and over 50 percent of fiscal revenue.

The management of state-owned PdVSA enjoyed, for many years, considerable autonomy from the government. Using this autonomy, management focused on keeping company assets and revenue offshore to avoid mandated tax and royalty payments to the government. Unfavorable transfer pricing and huge economically questionable investments in offshore downstream operations, including refineries and gas stations in the U.S., siphoned enormous resources out of Venezuela.

PdVSA had developed its own self-serving style of management cronyism. By directly appointing executives, Chavez began to dismantle this cronyism. Following the PdVSA strike in late 2002 and the mass firing of PdVSA employees in early 2003, the company's new boss, Ali Rodriguez, began to refocus PdVSA investment on Venezuela. Rodriguez also began to dismantle tax and royalty avoidance schemes and began the process of renegotiating foreign investment contracts.

Not only had the Chavez government become a threat to U.S. energy security and foreign policy goals, it also threatened the credibility of economic liberalization already under fire throughout South America. The Bush administration became deeply involved in undermining Chavez. Washington found willing accomplices in Venezuela among opposition political organizations and former PdVSA employees.

Through the U.S. government-funded National Endowment for Democracy (NED), the Bush administration funneled millions of dollars to groups opposing President Chavez in Venezuela between 2001 and 2003. These groups, particularly those organizing the upcoming recall referendum, continue to receive NED funds.

In addition to existing evidence in the U.S. proving the flow of NED funds to Venezuela, President Chavez has repeatedly stated that he has evidence that Washington was directly involved in the April 2002 coup that briefly toppled him. Chavez has persevered through enormous opposition at home and in Washington. Backed by even stronger popular support, he is unlikely to lose the recall referendum scheduled for August 15.

Venezuela's economic recovery is bolstering Chavez's popularity. In the first quarter of this year, gross domestic product increased by nearly 30 percent. Economic growth should top 10 percent for all of 2004. The restructuring of PdVSA and the company's rapidly expanding domestic investment are contributing strongly to economic growth.

Restructuring is also increasing cash flow to the government. Increased revenue from PdVSA is being used to fund numerous social development projects as well as subsidized loans to farmers and small businesses. Both increased investment and cash flow to the government are laying a solid foundation for continued economic growth in Venezuela.

Though strongly contradicting the Washington Consensus, the Chavez government is proving that social development and firm state influence in the economy can produce strong economic growth. Other countries in South America are beginning to implement economic policies similar to Venezuela's. Such developments are natural, as the Washington Consensus has proven to be economically disastrous for South America.

[Dinner]

Now figure out "real growth" which is growth minus inflation. That's how you learn that in real terms the economy shrank by 9.2%

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kidicious
December 2002 is also out dated.

2004 figures are 72.1% in poverty with 32.5% living in extreme poverty.

http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/link/meeting/ctryrep/venezuela200411.pdf

Any way you look at it poverty has goten steadily and dramatically worse under Chavez. Look at the botton of the first page under "Social Indicators: Extreme Poverty and Total Poverty".

Also note that yearly inflation is at 27.08% because Chavez has tarrifed just about every foreign made good off the market. The result? Sky high inflation and shortages of everything. This is a text book example of how to destroy an economy.

[Kidlicious]

Yeah. Cheap imports sure do our economy a lot of good.

I don't agree with the way he's doing things. I think they should make much more public investment, but neoliberalism is not the answer. That he has right.

[Kidlicious]

Even the IMF agrees that things are improving in Venezuela.

What is really clear, is that Venezuela does not need any type of agreements with our institution, since the country -for the time being- is economically healthy, due to its high oil incomes.

IMF Flirts with Venezuela