Swedish hockeyplayers rape 22 year old woman

[Zoid]

The law said it was her fault because she drank the booze by herself and wasn´t forced. So, she put herself in that situation. But that was the other thread, and it´s water under the bridge now anyway...

[Pekka]

So wait. She boozed up and wasn't forced to have sex. How is that a rape?

[Zoid]

She boozed up and was forced to have sex. Check the other thread about Motala.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Pekka
So wait. She boozed up and wasn't forced to have sex. How is that a rape?

On current law, not at all.

[Pekka]

Ah, so she was forced to have sex. ok.. just had to make sure, you never know with your blond little heads, now do you!

Is there any .. evidence but word against word? Nah, I don't really so much care about this case, or suggest that the woman has decided later on that it was a bad idea and accuse them of forced sex.. though that might always happen, and has happened plenty times before, it really doesn't make it so by default and I would believe it's usually the small percentage of cases where it would be falsely accused.

So, no don't answer.

[Zoid]

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showt...hreadid=128671 for details on the Motala case.

[Pekka]

I will not read it. How's them apples? :

[Shi Huangdi]

Does this women have any evidence to back her claims off, or were the just kicked off the team based on someone else's word?

[Last Conformist]

IIUC, they're not kicked off the team for being rapists per se, but for allowing themselves to end up in a situation that reflects badly on the sport.

[laurentius]

Originally posted by Kamrat X
Here you go, Laurentius

I think the reasons behind rape is that we live in a patriarchy. A male society, that treats women like commoditys that can be bought and sold at the wim of males. And that´s why some men can´t take no for an answer. The woman is inferior and should please the man and do his bidding, she can´t say no. It doesn´t compute, so to speak.

Another explanation (that doesn´t exclude the first one) is that alltough we live in a male society it´s a society with strict hierachys even for males. And when you´re unemployed and or shunned by society as a whole (like many immigrants, especially muslim ones, are) then it´s easy to loose touch on ordinary human behaviour and gang rape someone. I think it´s a way to get back at society and to boost your own ego.

Or does this sound like loony left wing feminist crap?

Thanks Kamrat X...

Yeah it does sound a bit feminist to me. But not left wing anymore than right wing.

I dont think we live in a patriarchy anymore. Some people like conservative Turks or Kurds might still be living, but as a Modern European society, nah. Some might say some women treat men like commodity too. There are women who buy sex from men for sure.
And I really do feel that the argument that men percieve women as inferior lost its relevance somewhere between 1950ties and 70ties and its kinda frustrating to see it pop up over and over again. Most of todays women are pretty selfconcious and dont let men jump on them. With News like this men are kept feeling collective guilt and as you see men are always guilty by default. Take a look at a regular divorce, who gets the kids? In 90% of the cases women do. Then again theres the cosmo/sex in the city factor wich makes many men and women think everyone wants to play that flirting game. And many people go to bars and restaurants for that, maybe these guys too.

Obviously something went wrong, perhaps she was just having a moral hangover for the threesome she never thought shed have. People get ashamed sometimes in the next day about what they've been doing. Or maybe these guys were a bit drunk and horny and things got bit out of hand. Some people do stupid stuff when drunk, and hockey players arent exactly te smartest people on the planet so I'm not very surprised. But of course they should go to jail if they raped that woman.

About your second theory; the strong sense of pride and not wanting to look like a looser is something people react very differently to. Maybe some people want to get back at society, but usually I think its just that when you have been labeled "looser" its much more easier to start to live like one. And whats more humiliating and destructive to ones self conciousness than feeling you are unattractive or unable to find someone you love and what to hold hands with.

The truth is there are lot of people feeling this way and before they become desperate and rape someone it might be good if there wasa place where they could pay for sex and pay for someone to teach them stuff and let go some pressure. I'm just trying to be pragmatic here.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Does this women have any evidence to back her claims off, or were the just kicked off the team based on someone else's word?

There is no conclusive evidence. That´s why they were aquitted. But they confessed to having sex with the woman...

[Pekka]

gang rapes happen because the society is oppressing someone? Very Freudian.

[Zoid]

Laurentius, I´m pretty sure we still live in a patriarchy. Almost everything is geared towards men. From tools to glossy magazines and commercials. The woman is still considered the passive one and man the active one. There is exceptions of course, but most of it is to suit the male.

The inferior argument may be outdated in a western context, but there´s still some leftover in the rural backwaters...

And something definitely went wrong. Why even consider taking a very drunk woman to your hotel room when you have a wife and kid at home? But men often get away with this kind of behaviour. If a woman did it she would be branded a slut and a bad mother in a heartbeat.

And I´m not sure that legalized prostitution is the way to go for people who are alienated by society. Legalized prostitution opens up a whole other can of worms

Sorry for the short answers. I might be able to elaborate on those tomorrow. Now it´s time for some late night snack and TV, and then bed.

[laurentius]

Yeah theres Cagney & Lacey coming from TV 4

nah, just kidding I'm watching ST:TNG too on SubTV. Lets continue this tomorrow.

[KrazyHorse]

edit: dp