FemNazis are at it again!

[Last Conformist]

Are you suggesting that chimps do not hold beliefs?

[Agathon]

Are you suggesting that chimps do not hold beliefs?

Perhaps, but bugs don't.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Dissident
this may be true, but women still make less money than men.

And red-haired less than blonds. who cares?

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Agathon

Are you suggesting that chimps do not hold beliefs?

Perhaps, but bugs don't.

That, surely, ought suggest, then, that the study of chimps has at least as much to do with the study of humans as with that of bugs?

[Agathon]

That, surely, ought suggest, then, that the study of chimps has at least as much to do with the study of humans as with that of bugs?

It depends. The easiest way to predict human behaviour is by means of attributed intensional states. I've never met a chimp, but I suppose the same goes for them, although not to any great degree.

For example, human beings have second order beliefs (beliefs about their beliefs). I don't think you need to invoke those kinds of beliefs to predict chimp behaviour.

Bugs on the other hand.

[Odin]

My main beef with the people on the Nurture side of things is that many of them, instead of debating the science, start spewing out ad hominims against the scientists. Population geneticist and rabid marxist Richard Lewontin is the most infamous at spewing insults at, and Godwinizing arguments with, scientists whose data does not match his politics.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Agathon

That, surely, ought suggest, then, that the study of chimps has at least as much to do with the study of humans as with that of bugs?

It depends. The easiest way to predict human behaviour is by means of attributed intensional states. I've never met a chimp, but I suppose the same goes for them, although not to any great degree.

For example, human beings have second order beliefs (beliefs about their beliefs). I don't think you need to invoke those kinds of beliefs to predict chimp behaviour.

You're wrong; chimps are capable of beliefs about beliefs to a couple of levels. Humans are capable of a few more.

(We can, of course, imagine an infinite regression of levels, but we can only actually work with about half-a-dozen ones in practice.)

[Last Conformist]

double post

[Agathon]

You're wrong; chimps are capable of beliefs about beliefs to a couple of levels. Humans are capable of a few more.

Like what?

[Pekka]

Chimps are able to think communism is a good idea. Humans are able to KNOW it's not, but capitalism is a good idea. There I said it. I know I said it and I did so there.

[Chemical Ollie]

Let's start a new movement:

Y-Front

for us who have Y chromosomes!


(By this post, I'm just bookmarking this thread for later read, I have very little time this week)

[Pekka]

that's a brilliant name. I approve that message!

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Agathon

You're wrong; chimps are capable of beliefs about beliefs to a couple of levels. Humans are capable of a few more.

Like what?

Please clarify what you're asking.

[Agathon]

Please clarify what you're asking.

What sort of second order beliefs have chimps been attributed. I haven't read up on this stuff for a while, but the last I heard the chimp language experiments were inconclusive.

I'm interested.

[Ned]

We are never really going to know whether a woman can been great business people until a woman founds a business and makes it into a a huge winner, like Microsoft, or perhaps takes a failing business and turns it into a big successs. The prejudices against women will persist until they are dramatically proven false by events.