The firebombing of Dresden - 60 year anniversary

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Whatever. I'm sick of arguing with people who defend these things.

Don't you mean you're sick of being made a fool of by your stupid opinions?

[Heresson]

It may sound horrible, but sometimes I think what I mind more is destruction of works of art than of humans.
People die anyway, and new ones are borned.

That's why I find it sad that Dresden (Drezno) specifically was bombed.
But if the Allies thought it has military sense, I can not condemn them with full strenght. Especially that German war excesses were way way way bigger.

[laurentius]

The British war criminals should be posthumonously dishonoured because of this.

[Dinner]

From Bebro's article:

But there is no reason to pretend that it was completely irrational on the part of the Allies. Dresden had war industries and was a major transportation hub.

Dresden was a military target and any forces the Germans would have to move to counter the Soviet Offensive would have to move through Dresden. Logically, if you knock out Dresden then the Soviets would have an easier time capturing the area. That was the goal after all.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by laurentius
The British war criminals should be posthumonously dishonoured because of this.

Cry me a river.

[laurentius]

aaand here you go

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/justintimberlake/crymeariver.html

[GePap]

Interesting how the Oerdin and Horse arguements cancel each other out- after all, the German "terror bombings" were generally against Cities that could be considered valid military targets (who could say that London and Rotterdamn were NOT key military targets?)

At the same time, I find both arguements lacking:

1. Who cares if the Germans did something previously? Payback is a pretty ****ty arguement to justify anything, ever. So what if they did it? If one is supposedly better than the other guy, then why would you do what they do?

2. HOw does mass indiscriminate bombing with incendiaries help take out military infrastructure? You are shooting blind- the US strategy of Day light "precision" (as precise as anything could be with 1940's tech) makes much more sense than indiscriminate nighttime raids directly at City Centers.

In the end, all the bombing Dreseden achieved was killing a whole bunch of civilians. I doubt that WW2 was speeded up a single day by that raid.

[Zoid]

In related news 3000 neo-nazis paraded through Dresden today to honor the 60 year anniversary. They wished to expose the allies as war criminals and to honor the victims of the bombings. Chancellor Gerhard Schröder condemned the nazis attempt to rewrite history and using the bombings to further their own propaganda.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4261263.stm

[Heresson]

Originally posted by GePap
Interesting how the Oerdin and Horse arguements cancel each other out- after all, the German "terror bombings" were generally against Cities that could be considered valid military targets (who could say that London and Rotterdamn were NOT key military targets?)

Does someone expect Germans to apologise for bombarding them?
No. Starting the war, holocaust, mass slave labour, taking away blond children, robbing of cultural hereditary of occupied countries - and destroying the rest etc are enough. Bombings are kind of usual parts of war.

[Proteus_MST]

I fully agree with GePaps Posting.

Two wrongs don´t make a right.
The Bombings of Hamburg and especially Dresden were as wrong (and IMHO War Crimes) as any german bombings of population Centers like London or Coventry were.

Especially sick is IMHO, that Arthur Harris AFAIK in GB is celebrated as a Hero of War and a few years ago got a statue dedicated to him.
It would be the same as if in germany we would erect a statue to celebrate the generals who gave the orders to bomb London and Coventry

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp


20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it? Meanwhile, back in wartime, those of us who didn't have the convenience of a very large ocean to keep them at a healthy distance, were wondering if the next rocket coming in would be carrying something nastier than just boring old high explosives.

The message of Dresden was "Do it again and we'll slap you".

I usually find you sensible, but not at all in this case.

[laurentius]

Excatly Gepap and Proteus

Now lets all cry Oerdin the river he wanted so badly

[Zoid]

War allows mankind to behave extremly crappy against one another. While there is sound strategic considerations behind some bombings, there is also bombings to terrorize, to humilliate and to show who´s the boss and who´s got the biggest dick. Dresden is IMO one of those, as is Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

But I get a little confused when the BBC article claims that the bombings took place as a service to the russians, to help them advance on the eastern front. I would sure like to see some sources for this. If it was only to help the russians advance more quickly, why flatten the whole city with incendiary bombs? Seems a bit of overkill, like hunting mosquitos with bazookas...

[Admiral]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Its hard to feel sorry for Germany after what they did.

The fire bombing of Dresden and other major German cities like Hamburg and Berlin undoubtedly contributed to the collapse of German will to fight in 1945.

There was a similar outcome from firebombing of Japanese cities 6 months later. It made people realise the war was lost and killed in the cradle an Iraq style post war insurgency based on a "stabbed in the back" myth.

The proponents of bombing always say that it hurts the will to fight of the people it is used upon. This is, essentially, untrue. That was the basis for the German attack on Britain. Did the British lose their will to fight? Not at all, they adopted to it, and actually became more determined. Bear in mind that this was happening when Britain was essentially the only nation fighting Germany. ANd in Germany, people accepted things like Hamburg and Dresden, and it was really the success of the land armies that took Germany out of the war.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST
Especially sick is IMHO, that Arthur Harris AFAIK in GB is celebrated as a Hero of War and a few years ago got a statue dedicated to him.

He was a war hero?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/afp/20050210/wl_uk_afp/wwiihistorydresdenbritain

LONDON (AFP) - Sixty years after the destruction of Dresden, the British public still believes the massive death toll was purely the result of the excess of the notorious "Bomber" Harris, and the idea of a national apology to Germany revolts the tabloid press.

"Harris and Bomber Command are still the black sheep of the British popular memory of the Second World War," said Mark Connelly, a history professor at the University of Kent and the author of a study on the role of the Royal Air Force in the destruction of the picturesque capital of the German state of Saxony.

Deprived of special medals and brushed aside for official ceremonies at the end of the war, Air Chief Marshal Sir Arthur Harris and his men never enjoyed the status of hero reserved for most of their colleagues.