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**Agathon** · February 11, 2005, 03:16

It just didn't make sense -- I was referring to the Bill Gates BSOD.

There wasn't one in the demo I watched (the recent one that everyone was talking about - the thing just didn't work).

**laurentius** · February 11, 2005, 07:30

Actually that Jobs video was quite convincing. Os X seems to be light years away from Windows when in comes to cool new features, innovation, usability and the features he showcased simply look amazing and really professional. I think my next computer will be Mac. I was seriously impressed.

Go Mac!

**Agathon** · February 11, 2005, 14:02

Actually that Jobs video was quite convincing. Os X seems to be light years away from Windows when in comes to cool new features, innovation, usability and the features he showcased simply look amazing and really professional.

I agree.

**Asher** · February 11, 2005, 14:12

Originally posted by laurentius
Actually that Jobs video was quite convincing. Os X seems to be light years away from Windows when in comes to cool new features, innovation, usability and the features he showcased simply look amazing and really professional. I think my next computer will be Mac. I was seriously impressed.

You were impressed when comparing an OS that will come out in 2005 versus and OS that came out in 2001?

Jobs is an excellent salesman -- count how many times he said "phenomenal" or similar adjectives, and things like "isn't that amazing? isn't this incredible? wow!". It's the same pitch you get from used car salesmen.

People willingly watch an hour-long sales pitch and buy into it. The man can seduce his crowds. The crowd cheered when OS X locked up and he switched to the backup system.

Some of the stuff OS X is doing is cool on the surface.

Most of the stuff shown by Apple is something everyone is getting in their future OSes.

**Agathon** · February 11, 2005, 14:16

You were impressed when comparing an OS that will come out in 2005 versus and OS that came out in 2001?

But aren't you the person who keeps saying that Microsoft gives away updates for free while Apple makes you pay for them?

So Tiger will be competing with SP2.

Jobs is an excellent salesman -- count how many times he said "phenomenal" or similar adjectives, and things like "isn't that amazing? isn't this incredible? wow!".

As opposed to Microsoft demos. "Crap-ass"; "Doesn't this suck? Isn't this lame?"

**Asher** · February 11, 2005, 14:23

Originally posted by Agathon
But aren't you the person who keeps saying that Microsoft gives away updates for free while Apple makes you pay for them?

So Tiger will be competing with SP2.

Tiger will be competing with Longhorn.

SP2 competes with Panther.

**laurentius** · February 11, 2005, 14:27

Originally posted by Asher

You were impressed when comparing an OS that will come out in 2005 versus and OS that came out in 2001?

Jobs is an excellent salesman -- count how many times he said "phenomenal" or similar adjectives, and things like "isn't that amazing? isn't this incredible? wow!". It's the same pitch you get from used car salesmen.

People willingly watch an hour-long sales pitch and buy into it. The man can seduce his crowds. The crowd cheered when OS X locked up and he switched to the backup system.

Some of the stuff OS X is doing is cool on the surface.

Most of the stuff shown by Apple is something everyone is getting in their future OSes.

I was impressed that company so much smaller than MS can roll out incredible software like showcased. I did notice the "awesome" "phenomenal" and the "and boom its there" wich started get annyoing pretty fast but still OS X with its iLife, the search etc software just blew me off. Also the constant cheering and applauding only feeded the image of a caricatyrical machead crowd. Still OS X is here now, Longhorn wont be here in a long time. I love how SJ uses the same philosophy he used with NeXT. Windows feels like a bloated piece of visual basic after seeing Tiger. Simply amazing...

**Asher** · February 11, 2005, 14:31

What blew you away about Tiger?

And of course a "smaller" company like Apple can roll out "incredible software" like iLife -- MS may be a larger company by far, but they compete in far more markets with far more products.

MS doesn't have the same "I'm gonna show you cool stuff now!" style when announcing products, and maybe they should. It obviously wins over some people.

I really love how iPhoto can now do things Picasa has always done, and it got a huge cheer frm the crowd. Or the "new features" in QuickTime 7, like an overlay control while in fullscreen...or more than 2-channel audio...stuff that's been in WMP for I-don't-know-how-long... or the ability to make hierarchical folders/albums in iPhoto...

Or the total stupidity behind the iPhoto Albums, which I honestly doubt anyone uses except for a handful of people. Interesting he didn't have sales statistics for those.

**laurentius** · February 11, 2005, 14:42

Originally posted by Asher
What blew you away about Tiger?

And of course a "smaller" company like Apple can roll out "incredible software" like iLife -- MS may be a larger company by far, but they compete in far more markets with far more products.

MS doesn't have the same "I'm gonna show you cool stuff now!" style when announcing products, and maybe they should. It obviously wins over some people.

I really love how iPhoto can now do things Picasa has always done, and it got a huge cheer frm the crowd. Or the "new features" in QuickTime 7, like an overlay control while in fullscreen...or more than 2-channel audio...stuff that's been in WMP for I-don't-know-how-long... or the ability to make hierarchical folders/albums in iPhoto...

Or the total stupidity behind the iPhoto Albums, which I honestly doubt anyone uses except for a handful of people. Interesting he didn't have sales statistics for those.

Tiger appeared to be at the same time extremely disciplined and organised and surprisingly laid back. You dont for example need to organise your documents, pictures etc strickly into hierachical folders, it doesnt matter if you just threw them up somewhere, you can still find it instantly with the Spotlight.

The dashboard was very nice and the overall sleekness how everything works is just amazing, and the neat graphical effects only make it look more cool. iChat - wow. Garageband -

The only thing that didnt impress me much was the QT 7 to wich I hold permanent grudge at due to QTs horrible performance on Win XP and the annoying way it ALWAYS asks if I'd like to upgrade

Overall:

Mac

**Agathon** · February 11, 2005, 14:50

Laurentius - the cool thing about Garageband is that anyone can make something that sounds cool.

Whack together a few loops, hit record and start singing, and you instantly have an mp3 serenade to send to your girlfriend.

**laurentius** · February 11, 2005, 14:50

I even joined a new civgroup

Agathon: yeah I only wish I had a Mac....or money for one

**Asher** · February 11, 2005, 14:59

Originally posted by laurentius
Tiger appeared to be at the same time extremely disciplined and organised and surprisingly laid back. You dont for example need to organise your documents, pictures etc strickly into hierachical folders, it doesnt matter if you just threw them up somewhere, you can still find it instantly with the Spotlight.

But that's the thing -- Spotlight is MSN Desktop Search. The only thing it has up on MSN Desktop Search is apps can expect it to always be on the computer, so they can integrate it into their own apps (so you can use it inside other apps). MS would love to do this, but they're not allowed to bundle MSN Desktop Search on the computer.

What is important IMO, is how Spotlight and these Desktop Search things are all hacks. You still have a hierarchical file system, and it only supports basic keyword matching.

WinFS -- whenever it'll come out -- is a full-out database. Hierarchies are there if you want to use them, but that's not how the data is actually stored. You can search your computer just like you would an SQL server...

You know like how labels work in Gmail, virtual folders in Outlook (and the ripoff feature coming in Apple's new mail client in Tiger)? It's like that. But for every file across your computer.

The dashboard was very nice and the overall sleekness how everything works is just amazing, and the neat graphical effects only make it look more cool. iChat - wow. Garageband -

iChat's video chat effect was definitely cool looking.

What wasn't cool looking was the terrible audio quality that cut out a few times (and this is under optimal conditions at a demo), and still blocky video. He talks about how awesome it is they're using H.264 as the codec, but what he doesn't mention is H.264 and its kin are only really good when it can read ahead 10-30 frames and see what's coming. Otherwise it's actually rather crap as a codec.

And seeing as it's impossible to see the future, the quality is kinda lacking in a video conference.

**Agathon** · February 11, 2005, 15:24

Agathon: yeah I only wish I had a Mac....or money for one

Mac mini. $500. Get a KVM switch and you're set.

**Agathon** · February 11, 2005, 15:56

And in further testament to the quality of MS products, I just went to the supermarket to buy lunch, and the computer at the checkout BSODed.

Windows.

**laurentius** · February 11, 2005, 16:56

Originally posted by Agathon

Agathon: yeah I only wish I had a Mac....or money for one

Mac mini. $500. Get a KVM switch and you're set.

I dont own any kind display or keyboard other than mi laptop. And dont have much money now that I've spend all the govt. student subsidies on art and booze...

But getting mac is a good reason to get a job.

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