Greenhouse effect could make Mars livable

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Why not use solar power?

He said in the same sentence to vent the greenhouse gasses directly into the atmosphere. Solar Panels don't do that.

Also, Mars' distance from Sol might make panels much less efficient for larger-scale uses than simple rovers.

[The Mad Monk]

He didn't mention greenhouse gases, just pollution.

[DRoseDARs]

He's Finnish. What can I say?

[The Mad Monk]

That he's close to Santa?

[Kuciwalker]

Not everyone in Finland is close to Santa.

[Dr Strangelove]

I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but in addition to supplying enough Oxygen gas to breath and warming the atmopsphere with some sort of "greenhouse gas" there also has to be a generous amount of inert gas, such as Nitrogen, in the atmosphere. If the atmosphere is more than 30% oxygen spontaneous combustion will occur. If the CO2 concentration is too high humans and other animals will be unable to blow off the normal amount of CO2 via respiration. CO2 will build up in their blood and they will die of acidosis. An enormous amount of inert gas is therefore required to dilute the oxygen and the greenhouse gas.

[Kuciwalker]

Yeah, we'd have to find a nitrogen comet

Actually, would hydrogen serve as a (not-so-inert, but whatever) substitute, forgetting plants for a second?

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but in addition to supplying enough Oxygen gas to breath and warming the atmopsphere with some sort of "greenhouse gas" there also has to be a generous amount of inert gas, such as Nitrogen, in the atmosphere. If the atmosphere is more than 30% oxygen spontaneous combustion will occur. If the CO2 concentration is too high humans and other animals will be unable to blow off the normal amount of CO2 via respiration. CO2 will build up in their blood and they will die of acidosis. An enormous amount of inert gas is therefore required to dilute the oxygen and the greenhouse gas.

That's all the more reason I support a carbon dioxide terraforming route over an oxygen one.

[Kuciwalker]

How do you figure that?

[DRoseDARs]

We need plant life more than we need a breathable atmosphere. Making such an atmosphere is going to take a very, very long time but encouraging GM'ed plant life will serve our more immediate needs earlier in the process. As a by-product, of course, they spit out oxygen so they'd still serve in that process. But if the planet is a frigid wasteland, nothing is served by giving it a breathable atmosphere. Heating the planet first should be the priority in any terraforming, then approaching the oxygen as a second stage should follow if that's what we want. Like I've said earlier, if I can walk on the Martian surface with nothing more than a heavy coat and an oxygen mask I'd call the terraforming an adequet success.

[Kuciwalker]

Plant life needs animal life, too. Plus, the Doctor's point was that we need a very large quantity of something OTHER than CO2 and oxygen.

[DRoseDARs]

I respectfully disconcur.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
It think Mars should be studied extensively for a long period of time before any decision for any form of deliberate terraforming is made.

I agree. So let's waite until next Monday the 7th of Feb., 2005.
I will be 61 in March and if we waite to long, I will not be here to see man set foot on Mars. So let's go now.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Not going to happen. Cos of Mars' lower gravity the atmosphere will bleed away relatively quickly due to brownian motion, and while the half life of the atmosphere will still be relatively high, it's composition would remain too unstable for a pleasant, if not inhabitable environment.

There's another problem. Let's assume they are wildly successful and find a way to terraform Mars so that it is Earth like with rivers, streams, even oceans. Of course humans transplant life onto Mars to make it even ore like Earth. Now comes yet another long term problem.

Hard water stains. Yes, the normal creation of CaCO2, also known as lime stone, is a natural and relatively quick geologic process which consumes large amounts of CO2. Likely the creation of lime stone is as big a carbon sink as all of the Earth's forests but luckily that carbon is recycled by techtonic processes and released again abiet in a process which takes millions of years. Mars, unlike Earth, has no active techtonics so you wouldn't get this recycling and instead CO2 would be continously removed from the system.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Plant life needs animal life, too. Plus, the Doctor's point was that we need a very large quantity of something OTHER than CO2 and oxygen.

Obviously we need nitrogen.