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  • Social Security yet again!

    Krugman continues his deluge of info against the lies of the privatization camp:

    The British Evasion
    By PAUL KRUGMAN

    Published: January 14, 2005

    We must end Social Security as we know it, the Bush administration says, to meet the fiscal burden of paying benefits to the baby boomers. But the most likely privatization scheme would actually increase the budget deficit until 2050. By then the youngest surviving baby boomer will be 86 years old.

    Even then, would we have a sustainable retirement system? Not bloody likely.

    Pardon my Britishism, but Britain's 20-year experience with privatization is a cautionary tale Americans should know about.

    The U.S. news media have provided readers and viewers with little information about how privatization has worked in other countries. Now my colleagues have even fewer excuses: there's an illuminating article on the British experience in The American Prospect , www.prospect.org, by Norma Cohen, a senior corporate reporter at The Financial Times who covers pension issues.

    Her verdict is summed up in her title: "A Bloody Mess." Strong words, but her conclusions match those expressed more discreetly in a recent report by Britain's Pensions Commission, which warns that at least 75 percent of those with private investment accounts will not have enough savings to provide "adequate pensions."

    The details of British privatization differ from the likely Bush administration plan because the starting point was different. But there are basic similarities. Guaranteed benefits were cut; workers were expected to make up for these benefit cuts by earning high returns on their private accounts.

    The selling of privatization also bore a striking resemblance to President Bush's crisis-mongering. Britain had a retirement system that was working quite well, but conservative politicians issued grim warnings about the distant future, insisting that privatization was the only answer.

    The main difference from the current U.S. situation was that Britain was better prepared for the transition. Britain's system was backed by extensive assets, so the government didn't have to engage in a four-decade borrowing spree to finance the creation of private accounts. And the Thatcher government hadn't already driven the budget deep into deficit before privatization even began.

    Even so, it all went wrong. "Britain's experiment with substituting private savings accounts for a portion of state benefits has been a failure," Ms. Cohen writes. "A shorthand explanation for what has gone wrong is that the costs and risks of running private investment accounts outweigh the value of the returns they are likely to earn."

    Many Britons were sold badly designed retirement plans on false pretenses. Companies guilty of "mis-selling" were eventually forced to pay about $20 billion in compensation. Fraud aside, the fees paid to financial managers have been a major problem: "Reductions in yield resulting from providers' charges," the Pensions Commission says, "can absorb 20-30 percent of an individual's pension savings."

    American privatizers extol the virtues of personal choice, and often accuse skeptics of being elitists who believe that the government makes better choices than individuals. Yet when one brings up Britain's experience, their story suddenly changes: they promise to hold costs down by tightly restricting the investments individuals can make, and by carefully regulating the money managers. So much for trusting the people.

    Never mind; their promises aren't credible. Even if the initial legislation tightly regulated investments by private accounts, it would immediately be followed by intense lobbying to loosen the rules. This lobbying would come both from the usual ideologues and from financial companies eager for fees. In fact, the lobbying has already started: the financial services industry has contributed lavishly to next week's inaugural celebrations.

    Meanwhile, there is a growing consensus in Britain that privatization must be partly reversed. The Confederation of British Industry - the equivalent of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce - has called for an increase in guaranteed benefits to retirees, even if taxes have to be raised to pay for that increase. And the chief executive of Britain's National Association of Pension Funds speaks with admiration about a foreign system that "delivers efficiencies of scale that most companies would die for."

    The foreign country that, in the view of well-informed Britons, does it right is the United States. The system that delivers efficiencies to die for is Social Security.
    If you don't like reality, change it! me
    "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
    "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
    "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

  • #2
    yeah Gepap posted it for me
    To us, it is the BEAST.

    Comment


    • #3
      The problem with privitization is that it leads to the general public being taken in by confidence men. One could easily see people being led astray by glowing praises of say an Enron by a well known academician/economist while being in their employ.
      "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

      “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

      Comment


      • #4
        Krugman:

        Comment


        • #5
          SS is actually in pretty good shape and only modest barrowing will be needed to keep it solvent through 2060. If we allow enough immigrants in then no borrowing would be needed at all.

          Bush is willing to spend trillions on deficits for pet programs but he won't cut qanything to save social security? Why is it he wants to spend two to three times the cost of protecting social security to privitize it?
          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Oerdin

            Bush is willing to spend trillions on deficits for pet programs but he won't cut qanything to save social security? Why is it he wants to spend two to three times the cost of protecting social security to privitize it?
            Because social security is a program that works- it counters the conservative notion that anything that government does, private enterprise can do better. It is a blot on their intellectual universe and they will seek to destroy it.
            If you don't like reality, change it! me
            "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
            "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
            "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't understand Krugman's reluctance to continue his track record of being a shill for the likes of Enron. Privitization will only mean future endorsements far in excess of his earlier takes.

              Can't be a matter of ethics and morals or even his desire for the betterment of others as he has little to speak of. That means his motives of burning hatred of all things Bush must outweigh his own desire to make money. Glad that works for him.
              "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

              “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

              Comment


              • #8
                So I take it from your inane babble ogie that you oppose privitization?
                If you don't like reality, change it! me
                "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                Comment


                • #9
                  Nope, I simply oppose all things Krugman.

                  Seems to work for me.
                  "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                  “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Oerdin
                    Why is it he wants to spend two to three times the cost of protecting social security to privitize it?
                    There are only about two ways he could do it without doing the evil act of letting people have control over thier money. Neither of them are politically popular with the soon to retire Baby Boomers. Cut benefits or raise the retirement age.

                    Anyway: Empowering workers: The privatisation of social security in Chile
                    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You want money for pension and for baby boomers? Raise taxes. Out of the question? Create more tax revenues then. Not enough? Settle for less. OR invent magic tricks.

                      In da butt.
                      "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                      THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                      "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Wow, a paper 9 years old! That mentions Argentina as one that followed along! yay! Just look how well Argentina did!


                        If you don't like reality, change it! me
                        "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                        "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                        "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Look at how well Chile did.
                          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DinoDoc
                            There are only about two ways he could do it without doing the evil act of letting people have control over thier money.
                            All privitization schemes I have seen limit the choice of money managers, make it impossible for workers to use "their money" before they retire, and might even make it impossible to take it all out at once- YUP, that sure is giving me control over MY money.

                            Neither of them are politically popular with the soon to retire Baby Boomers. Cut benefits or raise the retirement age.
                            If this is what needs to be done- fiscally far more responsible than borrowing several Trillion dollars for a scheme that will be worse than what we have today.
                            If you don't like reality, change it! me
                            "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                            "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                            "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DinoDoc
                              Look at how well Chile did.
                              Of Course:



                              just a sneak peek:

                              In Chile today there is a wide consensus among experts that the Chilean private pension system will provide pensions on its own only to the upper income minority of the affiliates to the system. Even for them, it seems highly unsatisfactory, mainly because of the high fees charged by private pension administrators. These, in turn, are six companies that have become the most profitable Chilean industry, one that is immune to recessions, with average return on equity of over 50% a year since 1997.


                              and

                              Meanwhile, a sizable majority of the workforce will not receive minimum pensions out of their savings in the system, and are not entitled either to the complementary public social security "safety net." Recent studies by the State regulator of the private pension administrators, Superintendencia de Administradoras de Fondos de Pensiones (AFP) have concluded that over half of the affiliates to the new system will never be able to save enough in their pension accounts at retirement, to fund even the "minimum pension," which is set presently in the order of 100 US dollars a month. A parallel study by the AFP Association—that is, the private pension administration industry—came to exactly the same conclusions. In the latter case, though, those who will never save enough funds are divided in two groups, one of which comprises fully one-third of affiliates and is simply left out of the calculation, on the grounds that they will never contribute more than ten years into the system. Two different studies by the State administrator of the public pension system, Instituto de Normalización Previsional, concluded that those who would be unable to save enough for the minimum pension, amount to about two-thirds of affiliates.


                              Note, of course, that this paper is less than a year old.
                              If you don't like reality, change it! me
                              "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                              "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                              "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

                              Comment

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