Civ2 PBEM Diplomacy ----- BETA 2!

[Kramsib]

Ok, I continued with the test but I get stuck again.

So I ran the saved .net file with the application, and make the barter.

Note, the three language options are still there the first time (English, Spanish, Spanish, there is a spare Spanish there).

I have take a photo: (excuse me for the bad quality but we all now who is responsible).

As you can see, there is a little problem, there is a strange message near the "Maximo" title.

The "TecnologÃa que ofreces" title invades the camp next to it.

The Quit option, only works for those technologies which are at the top of the queue, and although there is no embassies, there is no sense on demanding those advances which we already own, for instance, The Republic. (Bronze Working is another example).

If I have a lot of advances I do not want to be comparing one by one trying to select those which I have not yet. Of course, I do not know which are the other's advances, I have no embassy, but the program should know what are mines and eliminate them from the list of demands.

After this, I saved the barter in a file, without extension (should I need an extension?).

Then I restart Civ II like the next player should do, and run the Roman's save file. Now I am Hannibal of the Carthaginians, and I want to see what offers have been made. So I run the application again. I select the roman's net file, select Hannibal, stablish the password, view barter, choose the roman's barter, and then, an error.

"OFERTA ANTICUADA" -Out of date offer- or something like that.

I thought it perhaps was a wronk .net file, so I saved the Carthaginian's turn in a new .net file (carthago.net), and then I run the application with that .net file, repit the proccess and the same answer.

"OFERTA ANTICUADA" -Out of date offer-.

It is a new bug or my own mistake?

[Kramsib]

I forgot saying that the offer I have made was from the Romans to the Carthaginians, the next human player.

[yaroslav]

Originally posted by Kramsib
Ok, I continued with the test but I get stuck again.

So I ran the saved .net file with the application, and make the barter.

Note, the three language options are still there the first time (English, Spanish, Spanish, there is a spare Spanish there).

I have take a photo: (excuse me for the bad quality but we all now who is responsible).

As you can see, there is a little problem, there is a strange message near the "Maximo" title.

The "TecnologÃa que ofreces" title invades the camp next to it.

The Quit option, only works for those technologies which are at the top of the queue, and although there is no embassies, there is no sense on demanding those advances which we already own, for instance, The Republic. (Bronze Working is another example).

If I have a lot of advances I do not want to be comparing one by one trying to select those which I have not yet. Of course, I do not know which are the other's advances, I have no embassy, but the program should know what are mines and eliminate them from the list of demands.

After this, I saved the barter in a file, without extension (should I need an extension?).

Then I restart Civ II like the next player should do, and run the Roman's save file. Now I am Hannibal of the Carthaginians, and I want to see what offers have been made. So I run the application again. I select the roman's net file, select Hannibal, stablish the password, view barter, choose the roman's barter, and then, an error.

"OFERTA ANTICUADA" -Out of date offer- or something like that.

I thought it perhaps was a wronk .net file, so I saved the Carthaginian's turn in a new .net file (carthago.net), and then I run the application with that .net file, repit the proccess and the same answer.

"OFERTA ANTICUADA" -Out of date offer-.

It is a new bug or my own mistake?

Well, one thing and then, the next

1) The problems with the "three" languages is to be corrected. I don't know why it happen!

2) Máximo's problem... To be corrected

3) "Tecnologia que ofreces"... Well, I only test the utility on English

4) Your post says:

"If I have a lot of advances I do not want to be comparing one by one trying to select those which I have not yet. Of course, I do not know which are the other's advances, I have no embassy, but the program should know what are mines and eliminate them from the list of demands."

Ok, I'll add those features!

5) You must load the offer before load the roman file, as you do.

Now, I'll test it and correct those problems.

Thank you, again.

[yaroslav]

Well

1) Spanish problems resolved. Not a "third language", not long messages and so on.

2) "Offer obsolete or incorrect": This message is not a utility failure but a offer that can not be accepted (you ask for too many gold - and you not have embassy, so the utility don't tell you that you're wrong) I have separate message of obsolete and incorrect. I hope this will put the thing a lot easier

3) Now you can only ask for techs that you have

4) Remove button problem resolved

To do

* Don't offer PEACE or ALLIANCE if you are on PEACE or ALLIANCE...

* Don't display those techs that you already have ask for...

[yaroslav]

The upgraded version is on the second post of this thread

[yaroslav]

Another upgrade that solves little problem on the second post of this thread

[yaroslav]

I hope nigth tomorrow I will post the definitive BETA version without bugs and start a PBEM to test it!

Stay tuned

[Kramsib]

Hey Yaros, did you solve those things we were talking about by AIM? About offering diplomatic relations (declaring War, reputation problem, ...)?

I thought more deeply about allowing the program to run offers. I suggest you to allow the program to show only the legal offers, and ignore the illegal ones. But perhaps the demander wants those specific demands, and it is not interested on continue negotiating if his requests are not going to be enterely satisfied. Perhaps including a contra-offer option.

Example.

Romans offer, no gold, iron working and peace to Carthaginians,
and demand 100 gold, polytheism from them.

There is no embasies between them.

Imagine, the Carthaginians, only have 50 gold, the 100 gold demand is ilegal, so the program do the following:

a) Cancell the entire negotiation because of the illegal request.
b) Ignore the illegal request and show only the legal ones, in this case, Polytheism.

In option b), if Carthaginians accept the barter, they receive, Iron Working and peace by giving Polytheism. Ok, no problem. But perhaps the Romans considered those 100 Gold as an essential condition for negotiationing, in other words, if Carthaginians do not have 100 gold Romans will cancell the negotiation.

A solution for this problem and a good option for this, would be a conter-offer option which would allow a more interesting negotiation ("regateo").

Once the Carthaginans receive such an expensive demand, they could send a counter-proposal, "less money and you'll get it", which perhaps Romans should reconsider.

Another option could be, sending more than one offers to the same receiver, one with a money exchange, a second one with advances exchange and a third with treaties, so the receiver can say partially no to those parts of the demandings which he disagrees.

A third alternative could be, sending one offer but the program enables the receiver to accept or to reject some parts of the offer (Obviously, the offerer must choose an option previously, indicating the program it can treat his offer divided in parts).

[Kramsib]

I was thinking that, if Carthaginians reject the first offer and make an offer to the Romans, has the same effect than a Counter-offer option, avoiding programming.

Now in Spanish, to explain Yaros what I exactly mean.

Pues resulta, Yaros, que cuando el programa cancela la demanda por ser ilegal, se me ocurrió, bueno, pues que el programa deje ir las demandas legales, pero ¿qué pasa si al demandante no le conviene esto?, esto es, habrá veces en las que las ofertas sean rÃgidas, que sean tratadas como una unidad indivisible, "o aceptas esto o no hay más que hablar". Si el programa deja ir las legales, y el receptor las acepta, el demandante primero echará pestes por recibir menos de lo que pedÃa, sin posibilidad de haber cancelado su decisión.

De ese modo, caà en la cuenta de la posibilidad de las ofertas parciales y las contraproposiciones. Lo de las contraproposiciones es fácil, no hay que programar nada, el programa se adapta fácil, uno cancela la oferta que recibe y envÃa una nueva, básicamente igual a la anterior pero modificada (claro que quizá haya que tener mucha memoria o habrá que apuntar lo que la oferta traÃa, de modo que si el programa gestiona este tipo de actos serÃa la leche) en aquellos aspectos que uno considere. "Pues 100 de oro no tengo pero si quieres dos Falanges...".

Lo de las ofertas parciales es más difÃcil, primero, el que envÃa la demanda debe especÃficar que sus demandas se traten parcialmente, de modo que asuma que sus ofertas se traten de modo individual (que exista una pestaña donde se marque que las ofertas se traten de modo individualizado), esto quiere decir, que si yo ofrezco, 0 oros, Forja del Hierro y Paz, a cambio de 100 Oros y Politeismo, esto puede separarse en 3 negociaciones independientes. 1) Dame 100 oros a cambio de nada, aceptas o no,2) dame Politeismo a cambio de Forja del Hierro, y 3) te ofrezco la Paz a cambio de nada. De modo que el receptor pueda aceptar o rechazar las que le convengan o no, aceptar la 1 pero rechazar la 2, y asÃ.

Problema: las ofertas cruzadas (oro por ciencia, unidades por oro, ...) . Solución, a) Enviar diferentes ofertas independientes al mismo receptor, o b) que el programa lo gestione. Con la primera opción tampoco hay que programar, uno envÃa sus ofertas individualizadas, y el receptor las trata por separado, acepta unas y rechaza otras. Claro que el engorro de tener que tratar varios archivos de demandas de varios jugadores es claro...

Visto desde otro punto de vista, con estos conceptos se evita (no de cuajo como que se corte la negociacion si hay algo ilegal) que un jugador vaya tanteando cuanto oro tiene el otro, a medida que recibe respuestas del computador (Si yo pido 100 oros y 1 tech, los 100 oros son ilegales, el programa sólo deja ir la petición legal de 1 tech, el otro recibe que sólo pido 1 tech aceptando, al ver que sólo recibo la tech y no los 100 oros, deduzco que el otro no tiene 100 oros).

uff,

[Kramsib]

I don't know If I dreamed but I think it happened to me, at least once. (It is as likely as a civil war I think).

I remember the AI offering me to exchange the embassies, so I didn't need a diplomat to open an embassy in the foreign country.

I think the utility could include this option, to open embassies more easily.

[yaroslav]

Yes, I think that Civ2 AI can offer embasy exchange, but only on chieftain level

[Galvatron]

Re: Multi-lingual Support

Originally posted by yaroslav
If you want to add a language to the utility, I will more than pleased. French, German, Italian are a must

If you want to help, I'll send you a text file with strings to translate...

Thank you in advance.

If you still need somebody for German AND Italian translation I'm your man.

[yaroslav]

Thank you!!!!!

I send you a PBEM!

You cand find the first public release of the utility in this thread

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60148